January 23, 2004
Blogging CPAC
There is something about being in a hotel with, literally, thousands of conservatives that makes me smile all day long. The booths are terrific, the people are great and the speakers are just the icing. My favorite speaker, so far, was, yet again, Wayne LaPierre. He just has something that is so passionate and energizing. Like the last time I saw him, his talk focused on the First Amendment, rather than the Second, and yet again his call to arms against the ridiculous Campaign Finance law is infectious. The NRA is figuring out ways to legally maneuver around the law and LaPierre announced the beginning of a 24 hour news site that the NRA will launch thereby being allowed to voice opinions up to the day of the election. If LaPierre is speaking near you, take my advice and go see him. Several standing ovations later, you'll be glad you did.
Join the NRA here, contribute here and join me at their annual meeting.
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K,
Put down the crack pipe and tear up your NRA card. I am extremely disappointed in you. This country needs responsible republican politicians who understand the dangers that guns create. Middle america does not NEED semi-automatic weapons and urban america's development stunted by it. F' the second amendment, it doesn't work in these modern times. Gun ownership is ok but so are background checks and 48 hour waiting periods prior to purchasing them. And don't tell me that illegal sales gets guns into urban cities cuz there has to be someone buying those guns legally at some point to start the chain of events that gets them into urban environments.
So how does Britain have gun crimes, then? All handguns are completely illegal (insuring, of course, that only the criminals have them).
Watching the Pianist the other night, my liberal boyfriend said 'imagine if the Jews of Poland had owned guns.' Yes. Imagine.
How does Britain's gun crimes compare with those in the US?
Posted by: SMFA at January 23, 2004 06:26 PMSMFA, you wrote 'And don't tell me that illegal sales gets guns into urban cities cuz there has to be someone buying those guns legally at some point to start the chain of events that gets them into urban environments.' So, I told you that indeed making all guns illegal does not stop gun crimes from happening. It only stops guns from being in the hands of law abiding citizens wishing to protect themselves.
Posted by: Kashei at January 24, 2004 02:53 PM"'imagine if the Jews of Poland had owned guns.' Yes. Imagine." They'd have still gotten their asses kicked by the Nazi blitzkrieg of pre-emptive self-defense.
Posted by: qwerty at January 25, 2004 07:21 PMAre you nuts calling it that? Does it get you applause in the insane liberal circles? The Nazis are now considered to have launched a 'pre-emptive self defense' war? Does this make your Bush=Hitler comparison more accurate? Have you read any history?
Posted by: Kashei at January 25, 2004 07:39 PM"The Nazis are now considered to have launched a 'pre-emptive self defense' war?"
It would be interesting to ask that to a Nazi back in 1939. Of course history and the sane, no that is not true, but many a nazi back in the day might have believed it.
Posted by: PAUL at January 25, 2004 08:54 PMPaul, Hitler called the war the need for 'leibensraum' or 'living space'. There was no illusion that they were going to be attacked or were any danger from countries like Poland, Czechoslavakia or, for that matter, France.
Posted by: Kashei at January 26, 2004 11:21 AM"how come hand guns are illegal in Britain, and yet there is still gun crime" Yaaaawwwwwwwnnnn. Is this the best argument you can offer. I think pro rata there is much less gun crime in the UK.
Okay, heres a new one for you. How come they have widespread ownership of guns in Sweden and Switzerland, yet gun crime is (again pro rata) a fraction of that in the U.S.A. ? Says something about the nuts in the NRA and what they are defending. It's not neccessarily your laws that are fucked, but your mentality. Discuss.
By the way there is something distasteful about your "imagine if the Polish Jews had guns" comment For a kick off, the Polish nation had a fully equipped army that the Nazis defeated easily.Bear in mind the Nazis didn't just kill Jews. Secondly, some of the Polish Jews did have guns as far as I can recall - as did a lot of the resistance in Europe at the time. Not sure what you think could have been achieved, but there is enough sobering history to digest there without pointless speculation.
Posted by: Bobby at January 26, 2004 12:31 PMBobby, you completely prove my point. Sweden and Switzerland have widespread gun ownership AND THAT IS WHY gun crime is so low. You don't go swinging your gun around if everyone else is packing. That's exactly what I was saying. And, again, my comment about British gun laws were strictly to counter SMFA's comment about guns needing a legal starting point to get into a country. I can make a much better argument for gun rights but you've already made it for me.
I realize that Jews weren't the only ones killed but they were rounded up and taken to camps while many people watched and did nothing. Imagine if they were able to make some sort of a defense instead of just being killed en masse. Would the holocaust not have happened? No. But, it sure would've changed some of the results if Jews had any means to fight back.
You realize the Nazi's would kill anyone as punishment for actions against them. Having A policy of for every one of us you kill we will kill 20 of yours.
An armed populace to ward off invasion is a good pro-gun argument though.
Hitler also told his people that Germans in Poland and Czech were being mistreated and that was a reason for the "annexation", that sounds close to saying "preemptive self defense" of Germans in those countries.
The German people followed Hitler into war not because he said, "We Germans are going to engage in an evil war of aggression" but because he tricked them into thinking it was something else.
Bobby has a good point about Sweden and Switzerland. Guns in America is a bigger hazzard than guns in Sweden/Switzerland. It must be cultural. As Bobby said, discuss.
Secondly, Gun ownership is widespread in those countries but they also have very strict gun laws.
It's a strange thing the gun ownership debate, but definately an American problem that you can only figure out for yourselves. I would be inclined to agree that the law is not the problem.
I was hoping someone could shed light on the Warsaw Ghetto. I may be wrong, but I believe that there was some sort of armed struggle against the Nazis predominantly involving Jews.
Just another little factoid to add ... The gun crimes per capita in Sweden are actually roughly equal or a bit higher than in the US. A look at the social conditions anywhere reveal that people influenced by right wingers and neo fascists are more likely to pull the trigger. So, yes, I guesss it is true that guns don't kill people - people kill people. But just who is it that does the killing? So, if you think the US is ideologically divided, check out any country with a reputation for socialism and you'll find the most ugly underbelly.........and nowdays include Britain, unfortunately.
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