Don't forget that Russia also sold weapons to Iraq, and was a major benefactor of the oil for food program.

Don't forget Putin's recent crack down on free speech and capitalism.

Don't forget Russia's attempt to build missiles that evade our missile defense shield.

Hmm. I never said Russia was perfect. In fact, I mentioned our failure to comment on Putin's human rights abuses. I was saying it's about time we thanked them for their assistance in the war on terror.

And um, I'll dignify neither the comment on the "missile defense shield" nor your idea that Russia is building good missiles with an analysis, save to say that it was the USSR, not Russia, that we had the Cold War with.

Putin's recent crack down on free speech and capitalism.
There was never much capitalism in Russia to crack down on. If you think Yeltsin's policies promoted capitalism, then there is no difference between busenessmen and thieves.
Russia is not a fully democratic country, and it won't be in another century or so. It doesn't mean it can't be an ally in the war on Islamofascism. I'll say more: it is actually more likely to become an ally than France or Germany, because Russians value their national security and their statehood more than they value political correctness. The opposite seems to be the case in Europe. Europeans are so in love with their "sophistication", that they'd rather sit on their hands while spewing eloquent bullshit, than use common sense and defend their society.

What Lenin said.

Very nice post, Candace.

Two key countries that we need to help us are Russia and China. You have covered the importance of Russia.

Cooperation of China is needed to bring North Korea under control. China has finally recognizes the danger North Korea poses to them and the world. They are starting to restrict the flow of needed materials to North Korea but they need to do a lot more.

Bush has done a much better job than Clinton of getting Russia and China to cooperate with us on the War on Terror. (Iraq excepted)

France and Germany are not and never will be important in the War on Terror and we should not waste our efforts by appeasing to them.

Candace,

"And um, I'll dignify neither the comment on the "missile defense shield" nor your idea that Russia is building good missiles with an analysis, save to say that it was the USSR, not Russia, that we had the Cold War with."

I would like to direct you to this link.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20040219.wruss0219/BNPrint/International/

Still think that it was just the USSR we have the could war with, or do you think Russia is still a major threat?

Oh and i forgot the abuse of different religions

http://sandcastlesandcubicles.blogspot.com/2004/03/well-if-you-are-going-to-ban-religion.html

The fact of the matter is that Russia is Less than perfect, infact the have more strikes against them than for them.

Cube:
infact the have more strikes against them than for them
Good luck striking. You must've watched a lot of Cold War movies, heh?

If you think that Russian authorities shutting down Jehovah witnesses somehow contributes to your retarted calculus, then I guess logic is useless in this discussion.

Speaking of religious freedom, I am much more worried about what organizations like CAIR get away with in this country, who, under pretext of "religious freedom" promote anti-American, Islamofascist ideologies - than I am about trendy cults being kicked out of Moscow.

The math is simple, really only redeeming quality about Russia is that they can kill the isalamic militants, and no one will really cares.

They are a former communist country and people expect that, american should really use that to their advantage.

Russia is still a threat. Russia is sliding backwards toward a form of govmerent that want have the communsim idealogy to hide behind. Russia in my mind is ranked very low amoung industrized countires. If you only consider one facet of Russia (ie war on terror), you would think it is a fairly rosy place. You must look at the big picture.

Hmm...can anyone say, Russia is bad news?

They are a former communist country and people expect that, american should really use that to their advantage

Russia is sliding backwards toward a form of govmerent that want have the communsim idealogy to hide behind

Can anyone translate this, please? Cube, your English is as fantastic as your math. Your parents should check your homework more often.

"They are a former communist country and people expect that, american should really use that to their advantage."

explanation: Russia could really crack down hard on suspected miltants and miltants. here in the US we cannot search every house. But in Russia they still can. They can violate rights to reach their end in Russia much easier than you can in the US. That is their value to us in America. The can do very dirty deeds in their country, and people will not be very surprised or rasie much of a fuss. It is sad, but true.

"Russia is still a threat. Russia is sliding backwards toward a form of govmerent that want have the communsim idealogy to hide behind. "

correction: Russia is sliding backwards toward a form of goverment that will not have the communsim idealogy to hide behind.

If you like, I can explain that statment further.

I will admit that i am the product of the south Ark education system, and also a product of spell check. But if you want to attack my spelling and evade my points you can.

My basic point is that Russia has more points that make it bad news than points that make it a friendly world neighbor.

Cube,
It's hard to evade your points, because you're not really making them. Yes, I would like you to explain what communist ideology you are talking about, and what makes you think Russia is sliding towards authoritarianism.

You are right, in Russia the government can get away with much, much more than in America. What they do in Chechnia is horrible. The question is, what are you gonna do about it? Further isolate them, so they really slide into chaos, and some wackos get access to their nukes?

Russians are not exactly friendly, especially towards America. That doesn't mean you can't partner with them. Candace points out in her post that Putin has done good things for America, and can do more. You can either appreciate that, or keep complaining that Russia is not as civilized as America. Of course it's not, and only an idiot would expect it to be. So, my question to you is, Do you think the US can help promote rule of law in Russia? If yes, then how?

Don't you think america has done enough? We fought a cold war against them and won. Now we are supposed to rebuild their society for them.

Now i can answer you question.
Rule of law ehh?
Hmmm...
I am not so sure what you mean by rule of law. Gods law? Common human rights law? International law?

I am going to assume you mean the general body of law that most americans take for granted. Personal freedom, property rights, freedom of speech, etc. In short demoracy.

Yes i think America can promote the rule of law in Russia.

My assumptions.
Rule of law and respect for the law will work best in a free society.
Free societys need to have econmic freedom as well. When you don't control the finances, it is harder to control the people.

How you ask?

Russia is not a small country, so econmic aid while it might be used in some cases, won't really fit the bill here. America could pour billions of dollars directly into their econmy and it would not help much.

Although, if we are able to open Russia up to investment the process could happen at the private level, and the goverment would not have to assume any of the risk.

Engaging Russia miltary is not a good option. Altough, making treating of protection (we will protect them) will allow them to spend less of thier tax money on the miltary, and more on helping their selves out. Of course this will only grow our miltary, and increase our miltary industrial complex (which having a large percentage of your wealth tied up in the miltary is not a good place to have it. )

In promoting rule of law you can take many positions. A consistant, clear one is best. Much like parenting, your goal i parenting is not to be the childs friend, but to guide them the adulthood.

The way i would attack the russia problem is by prasing them when they do good things, and also pointing out when they do bad things. I would constantly encourage good things with the econmic carrort that we possess.

I would try to include them in our missle defense shield. It would save them money on trying to beat us technically (which they failed at that 14 years ago, and we are a little ahead of them know and it would not be fair of us to pick on the loser)

Also, locking down the nukes is a good thing,
alhtough we have the ability to find those things if we would install radition equipment at ports and airports, and also lock down our boarders.

But stopping the nukes at the source, and accounting for all (and i mean every single last one of them) is also a good move.

In the end though, change has to come from within russia itself. America can promote the rule of law, but i don't think that america can make much of a difference. But you did not ask me if I thought america could be successfull.

Relax, cuby baby, nobody expects you or your country to help Russia out of her problems. It should be obvious that my question has to do with America's own interest. I certainly didn't refer to monetary aid, because, as Yeltsin government proved, it can do more harm than good.
By law I mean secular law, that the lawmakers make, and citizens obey.
I understand your desire to treat Russia as a parent would treat a child, but I don't think that's an option. Not to mention that parenting means taking responsibility for your child, and as an American, I surely don't want that.
Russians value their sovereignity, and will never disarm just because America doesn't trust them. Perhaps when you grow up, you'll be able to understand that. As far as Russians trying to beat the US technically, don't you think competition is a good thing? Some of suggestions that you make contradict each other (including Russia in defence shield WOULD be engaging their military - duh), and others are gibberish that I don't care to decipher. We do seem to agree on the following:
change has to come from within russia itself
If you isolate it, that change will only be for the worse. If you engage it, there is a chance it will be for the better.

Cube - I think you're a little misinformed and you vastly overestimate any "threat" that Russia may have to the US at the moment. Because there isn't any. Let me get into it a little:

First, Russia is open to private investment. Despite Khodorkovsky's arrest, it has recently been highlighted as one of the best countries to invest in.

I'm not sure why you think the military spending situation in Russia is so dire. I read every article that is written about Russia every day and a review of at least every book and I don't recall seeing anything about this at least since the beginning of the year, so I'm wondering where your assumptions come from. The Chechnia problem? It's not about military spending. If you're interested in learning more about the situation in Chechnya let me suggest starting out with some background reading, like Matthew Evangelista's Chechen Wars and then looking at recent monitoring of the situation by ITAR-TASS, RFE/RL, and BBC's international coverage, to start.

I'm not sure if you think America is the parent in guiding Russia into the "rule of law" or what, but the United States as a rule promotes the rule of law all over the place. Russia, like any country, has problems, but I don't know that I'd start with "rule of law." For example, despite Putin's more authoritarian tendencies and his huge popularity all over the country, there is very little chance that they will attempt to change the constitution to allow him to serve a third term. That shows incredible progress, to me.

I don't know how your suggestion that we praise the good and point out the bad is any different from what I said. The problem was that earlier, we did neither: we neither praised/thanked them for their help nor used our newfound closeness to pressure Putin on key issues like the environmental threat of rotting nuclear arsenals, human rights abuses in Checnia, and restrictions on free press.

As for the "missle" defense shield... I think the decision to pull out of ABM was a bad one but I don't get what you think they're doing about that, other than being upset. Honestly, love, sources.

(Boarders = people who stay on with you, borders = those things that say which land belongs to who. As for the spelling, like with your arguments, you don't have any excuse not to at least try to get things straight.) Overall, you seem to have some sort of nuclear weapons paranoia, which ignores the fact that Russia's military arsenal is a mess that needs oversight, not hostility. We have an opportunity to increase good relations with Russia and build trust so that they will come to us for the aid they need, and thanking them for their incredibly valuable assistance in the war on terror is just one way of doing that.

Happy learning-more-about-Russia; it's a fascinating place and once you get sucked in it's hard to think of studying something else!

Ivan,

"I understand your desire to treat Russia as a parent would treat a child, but I don't think that's an option. Not to mention that parenting means taking responsibility for your child, and as an American, I surely don't want that."

Well one thing we can offer is tips on how to build a stable self correcting econmic system. They need this very badly.

"As far as Russians trying to beat the US technically, don't you think competition is a good thing?"

Free market competition is good, miltary build up is not. Swords to plowshares, you know.

"including Russia in defence shield WOULD be engaging their military - duh"

No, it would be handing them technology they did not have to spend money on. If done properly it could encourage good will.

"If you isolate it, that change will only be for the worse. If you engage it, there is a chance it will be for the better."

My plan engaged them both econmically and confronted polictally. If isolation is the effect of telling them where and when their abuses of freedoms happen there is not much hope anyways.

Candace,

"First, Russia is open to private investment. Despite Khodorkovsky's arrest, it has recently been highlighted as one of the best countries to invest in."

Is the Khodorkovshy arrest a isolated event, or just the only one i heard about? I assume there are more, this one was just big enough to get in the news.

Secondly, is it the frist raindrop in a flash flood, is it an omen of things to come?
I think you know where i fall on that.

"I'm not sure why you think the military spending situation in Russia is so dire."

I don't think it is dire, but it get bad real quick.

"despite Putin's more authoritarian tendencies and his huge popularity all over the country, there is very little chance that they will attempt to change the constitution to allow him to serve a third term."

Bet you five dollars he will serve a 3 thrid term?
He is maving moves to make is easier for him to do it lawfully (taking over the media for example).

"As for the "missle" defense shield... I think the decision to pull out of ABM was a bad one but I don't get what you think they're doing about that, other than being upset. Honestly, love, sources"

I cited on article earlier, i can cite it again if you like. Of course it is just on article, but do you think they would tell you they are desgning new technolgy to beat the missle defence sheild.

Pulling out of the ABM treaty was the best thing to do. You can't help others if you are a pile of radioactive dust.

"Overall, you seem to have some sort of nuclear weapons paranoia, "

Really? I should have made it less obvious.
But remember it only takes one to ruin you life. Also worst case is not american getting tapped by one, worst case is it blowing up in an Islamic country because the terrorist did not know what they were doing. The effects of that would be very hard to perdict.

"which ignores the fact that Russia's military arsenal is a mess that needs oversight, not hostility"

Is that not what i said?
I qoute:
"Also, locking down the nukes is a good thing,
alhtough we have the ability to find those things if we would install radition equipment at ports and airports, and also lock down our boarders.

But stopping the nukes at the source, and accounting for all (and i mean every single last one of them) is also a good move."

In short we have the same goals, i just don't dress things up. Nor am i optimistic about the situation they are in.

Russia is on the edge and they need our attention more than most counitres.

K, Cube. I don't think there's anything more I have worth saying to you... start reading the news coming out of there and come back when we can have a debate where I don't have to answer basic questions/refute untruths.

Thanks for this conversation, though. It's been helpful in understanding where the paranoid anti-Russians are coming from. At least you didn't say "Putin is a Communist."

He is not so much a Communist than he is a power hungry individual, who might try to hide beind Communism.

I noticed you did not want to take my bet. If you are so sure of yourself, it would be like taking candy from a baby. Which if i was dumb enough to bet you, then it would be my fault.

And I do not belive anything i have said is untrue. If fact i belive i am telling you is going to happen, and you are not listening. If feels like i am pointing and yelling about the tiger in the room, but no one is listening.

I honestly cannot remember a postive news story coming from that country. Not in the last year, year an a half at least.

Putin is smart, when he makes his bid for power, it will be quick, and proably with the people's appoval. when you have total control of the media, and can rig the votes, you can get a lot of stuff done.

So you heard it here frist, Putin for life, that is the next catch pharse coming out of Russia. I will put money on that.

I am not so much anit russian as i am paranoid.
I think china will be a huge threat in the next 20 years (they will need oil worse than us)

cube

Cube - I have no desire to take candy from babies; I have more Candy in one little finger than most have in their whole bodies.

I try to engage with equals on that kind of thing. Like, people who know that Putin in no way expresses the Communist ideology. Like, people who are sane.

Take that how you want. Now, if you'll excuse me, I'll go back to writing about separatism in post-Soviet states (notice the "post" part; that's significant for the world today), and blogging about shoes.

Ciao