ALARMINGNEWS_1_1.jpg

September 24, 2004

Friends?

A piece in the Guardian calls for citizens of the world to be allowed to vote in the US election. Is there anything more egotistical? And, Americans are considered full of themselves? I don't think I should be voting in France or Germany's elections, why should they be voting in mine?

I used to be a big international traveler and I can't explain to what extent I've lost interest in going abroad. I just don't want to hear the groupthink opinions on the political situation of my country. They make fun of America but at least there's a diversity of opinion here. I know Democrats who supported the war and Republicans who opposed it. Democrats who are voting Republican for the first time ever and Republicans who will never vote Republican again. I haven't see this kind of opinion range anywhere else.

I got an email from a friend the other day that I hadn't spoken to in several years. He's German, living in Belgium. Out of nowhere, he tears into the CIA and how they don't have high school diplomas, Bush being from -gasp- Texas, how America could support ripping down one wall and building another and how the world doesn't need Bush's 'protection'. I mean, again, this is a 'hey, how's it going, long time no write' email. It's a time to catch me up on what happened in his life, to discuss common friends, to talk about future plans and to generally touch base. It shouldn't be time for a rant. And, it puts me in an awful position of either ignoring his words or responding. If I ignore, I feel like I've sold out my own positions and didn't defend myself from a sideline attack. If I respond, well, what could I respond? The nice version (though my mind produced a not-nice version first):

Dear Friend,

I'm voting for Bush. One wall was to keep people in, one wall is to keep people out. I'm disappointed that you think the state of Texas should be barred from producing presidents. I know for a fact you've never been there. Maybe it's better if we don't talk politics.

In other news...

K

But, of course, that wouldn't be the end of it. He would either never write me again (I mean, how dare I have a different opinion) or he would write a 'but, c'mon can you see that Bush is stupid and evil?' I've had these conversations before. The major thing that many of my friends abroad don't understand is how unpopular 'the whole world is against Bush' argument is to most Americans. The Guardian does realize that, though, and notes it in their conclusion:

Besides, every good Republican knows the world is solid Kerry territory. A survey by pollsters HI Europe earlier this month found that, if Europeans had a vote, they would back Kerry over Bush by a 6 to 1 margin. Bush would win just 6% in Germany, 5% in Spain and a measly 4% in France. No Republican is going to cede turf like that to the enemy.

You would think those numbers would hurt Bush, making clear how unpopular he is in the world. But they don't. If anything they hurt Kerry, suggesting he is the candidate of limp-wristed foreigners and therefore somehow less American. We may find that a sorry state of affairs. But there is little we can do about it. In the democratic contest that matters most to the world, the world is disenfranchised.

I've had friends give me the 'but the whole world is against Bush, doesn't that mean anything to you' shpiel. Nope, the world has been wrong plenty of times before and I don't understand the need for the world's approval. And America certainly doesn't need their votes.

Posted by Karol at September 24, 2004 09:48 PM | TrackBack
Technorati Tags:
Comments

All I gotta say is: No representation without taxation.

Posted by: Shawn at September 24, 2004 11:00 PM

The main tenet of the left-wing parties in Europe is to hate America and that has been true since 1930. If a person does not hate America he is not considered to be left-wing.

I just returned from a trip to Ireland and Scotland. I found that they have a monolithic left-wing media there just as we do. And they have the left-wing chattering classes there just as we do.

However, I found everyone in those countries to be really friendly. The only time politics was brought up was a guy in a pub told me that everyone in Ireland knew that Kerry falsified his Irish roots for many years.

My impression is that left-wing politicians are scorned and laughed at by the ordinary people there.

Posted by: Jake at September 25, 2004 12:09 AM

Also:
During my trip to Italy this spring, I found that Italians hate Germans and the French but they LOVE Americans.

Italians are unbelievably friendly to Americans.

So Karol, if you go to Italy, Ireland or Scotland I can assure you that you will see many friendly faces just because you are an American.

Posted by: Jake at September 25, 2004 12:22 AM

I love Scotland. I always considered it my second home. It's not that I'll never go to Europe again it's just exhausting to keep having the same 'argument' (I use quotes because I don't consider 'Bush is stupid' to really be much of an argument) over and over again because nearly everyone thinks the exact same way. If I'm drawn to go anywhere, it's definitely to Scotland, but I have much more of an urge these days to see America.

Posted by: Karol at September 25, 2004 01:14 AM

If the various countries of the world want to petition the US government for statehood, more power to 'em. They're going to have to get used to the idea that their much-lauded and ever-collapsing nationalized health care systems are going the way of the dodo, however.

In other news, I dare say that the exactly same poll conducted with any other similarly inoffensive alternative would have yielded similar results. "Who would you rather see as president of the United States of America, George Bush or Joey Jojo Junior Shabadoo?" (crunch crunch ding) And Shabadoo wins by a margin of six to one.

All this demonstrates is that Europeans hate George Bush. A fact which stirs me not one bit.

(Of course, given recent developments in Europe lately, I'm sure that the poll would have turned out overwhelmingly in Bush's favor if the choices were George Bush or Chaim Goldstein.)

Posted by: Jeff Harrell at September 25, 2004 01:25 AM

"My impression is that left-wing politicians are scorned and laughed at by the ordinary people there."

Almost right there Jake. Replace left wing with all, and you would be closer to the mark.
What were you doing in a pub. Where did you get your ID ?

Posted by: Urbane McMeercat at September 25, 2004 06:12 AM

Yes that is egotistical and an insult to soverignty. But what do you expect ? With the UN, international criminal courts and the WTO attacking national soverignty already, this is merely the end of the slippery slope. Indeed, here in America we have other nations from Mexico to Israel pushing the concept of dual citizenship. As usual the road to hell is paved with good intentions since the concept of dual citizenship, no matter how noble the purpose, again is an insult to American soverignty. Soverignty can not be divided; this is one of the core ideas behind the pivotal event of American history. We should not be forced to share it with the world, with other nations and global organizations.

Posted by: Von Bek at September 25, 2004 09:52 AM

Maybe if the U.S. stopped acting like a global bully, foreigners would not care as much who ran the United States.

Posted by: Dan at September 25, 2004 10:20 AM

One journalist writes a lot of ill thought out rubbish, and you discuss it at length. Why bother about it ?
Wonder if Freeland was clamouring for a place on the politburo when Brezchnev died? After all, the outcome would have a profound effect on Western Europe.

Posted by: Urbane McMeercat at September 25, 2004 10:20 AM

What a great idea! Then China can pick all the world's leaders! I've been dreaming of a return to Stalin and Mao all my life. This plot may just help to make it a reality.

Posted by: candace at September 25, 2004 11:28 AM

where's my dollar?

Posted by: dawn at September 25, 2004 04:13 PM

" I don't understand the need for the world's approval"

that is because we don't need it.

dan,

"Maybe if the U.S. stopped acting like a global bully, foreigners would not care as much who ran the United States."

maybe if everyone stood up to us a little bit, we would care if they are there.

We took over two countires in the past four years, and that was just because we where a little pissed. Imagine what we would do if we where really angry or really bored.


whenever we show up the people fighting run to the hills or hide amount the population, that should tell you somthing right there

Posted by: cube at September 25, 2004 04:25 PM

Dan:

If America had not been a global bully in 1942, Europe would still be under the iron fist of Anti-Semitic state socialism.

Never mind-bad argument.

Today, Europe IS under the iron fist of Anti-Semitic state socialism.

Posted by: Jake at September 25, 2004 04:29 PM

Cube:

They may run to the hills, but they also can strike us at home. I prefer not to get into unnecessary fights with foreigners. I would rather keep our remaining skyscrapers than create new enemies abroad.

Jake:

Why do you have against the Europeans? I have always found Europe a pleasant place to visit. The taxes are a little high but no worse than where I live.

Posted by: Dan at September 25, 2004 09:41 PM

Europe is not under the fist of anti-semitic state socialism anymore than USA is under the fist of the American version of the NSDAP, all appearances to the contrary.

The last time you guys fought an opponent anywhere near your level of industrial might was WW2 and despite your huge numerical superiority, complete command of the sea and sky, no fuel problems and the benefit of BRITISH code breakers the Germans managed to win smaller scale encounters with ridiculous ease. Kasserine pass to name just one.

Every time you have wargames against British special forces you get the crap knocked outta you.

Posted by: Young-white-and-liberal at September 26, 2004 09:36 AM

Just remember YWL, when it really counted, who wins. Just ask Edward Pakenham, the Duke of Wellington's brother in law, and his men who had beaten Bonaparte in the Penninsula campaign were target practice for Andy Jackson and his forces just south of the great city in New Orleans back in January of 1815. A lot of them, including Pakenham himself, came home totally immersed in booze to preserve their corpses.

And while the Germans did win the battle you mentioned (and some rather nice ones in Italy when Smiling Albert outgenealled Mark Clark), we won. We were not driven out of Libya to the outskirts of Cairo by Rommel and we did not celebrate a massive retreat as a great victory like the Tommies did. But then the Brits have a soft spot for losers; it explains why Scott of the Antartic is a hero and why fight fans love Frank Bruno and not Lennox Lewis over there. And it was mostly Americans who handled the Pacific front, after the British were handed their asses at Singapore; Winston's favorite ship, the Prince of Wales, of course being suck there.

Thanks for holding our coats for us but you really have not been the same since Gallipoli, the Somme, Ypres and so on. Point to the Falkands and I will point to the time there as well as the Suez, the last time we saw a British bulldog as opposed to an American lapdog.

While I respect what the British have done over the years (despite my Irish Catholic background), I think it is fair to say the sun has finally set on the British empire.

Posted by: Von Bek at September 26, 2004 09:57 AM

almost everything you have said there i quite agree with.

you are forgetting one little thing though. the victory at new orleans came after 2 years of american defeats on land and the british burning the white house! also despite many successes afloat in the war of 1812 we won the final naval battle and we threw you out of canada bloody quickly.

apart from that nicely put.

Posted by: Young-white-and-liberal at September 26, 2004 12:12 PM

Re: the European mensch v. their leaders, I think Bruce Bawer’s point in his article on anti-Americanism (earlier this summer) is very salient. Look at the aspects of American culture encountered first-hand by most Europeans (politics, music, movies, tourism, etc.), and look at the general assessment of those things. Europeans tend to have a far more favorable opinion of American pop culture because they have personally experienced it. American politics, however, and many other aspects of American culture that they tend to be more critical of, are often things they have only heard about from government leaders — not personally experienced.

Finally re: Dan’s remark above: “I prefer not to get into unnecessary fights with foreigners. I would rather keep our remaining skyscrapers than create new enemies abroad.” I think it’s a little late for that now. Not that you necessarily meant this, but your remarks reminded me of others I know who seem to think that if we could just pull our troops out of Iraq (never mind that fledgling government’s need for support, never mind that it’s not just US forces over there), this all would be over. But sadly it’s not that easy.

As Ron Rosenbaum wrote in a recent column for The New York Observer, “The Michael Moore wing of the [Democrat] party makes fun of Mr. Bush for not leaving the third-grade classroom after he’d been told of the Sept. 11 attacks. But at least he eventually got up and faced the situation, while much of Mr. Kerry’s base still hasn’t left kindergarten when it comes to taking the situation seriously. They still believe that if we were just a little nicer to them, the bad people would leave us alone.”

Posted by: Christi at September 26, 2004 01:22 PM

where's my dollar?

Posted by: dawn at September 26, 2004 02:10 PM

Christi:

I do not think pulling our troops out of Iraq will end the hostility that much of the Arab and Muslim has for the United States. It is not a matter of being nice, but a matter of not bothering them. I think that the less we meddle in their affairs, the less we will be disliked.

And if the American backed puppet state in Iraq falls when America pulls out, so be it. I do not think that it is worth any more American lives or dollars to prop up a regime that probably will not make it on its own.

Posted by: Dan at September 26, 2004 02:21 PM


"you are forgetting one little thing though. the victory at new orleans came after 2 years of american defeats on land and the british burning the white house!"

I fail to see how the American repulse of the British at Ft. McHenry (best known in the Star Spangled Banner) and the battle of the Thames count as American defeats but you're point is valid.

"I falso despite many successes afloat in the war of 1812 we won the final naval battle and we threw you out of canada bloody quickly."

I will concede final British supremacy at sea but British exansion into the Old Northwest was checked by the War of 1812, including Perry's stunning defeats of the British in the Great Lakes, leading John Bull to the table for the Rush-Bagot treaty in a few years, making the American-Canadian border pretty much a friendly one.

I do not think either of our countries won the war of 1812 but certainly the growth of American nationalism after the war makes me think America took it as a morale victory if nothing else. As for the Brits, with Peterloo and Reform, I think they had better things to do in the next 15 years after Ghentt.

And how could I have forgotten our 'Enry who is now a knight ? Geez, Cooper is probably a better example than Bruno.

Posted by: Von Bek at September 26, 2004 07:29 PM

i don't think either of our countries won the war of 1812 either. personally i rank it up there as a conflict that served no ones purposes.

Posted by: young-white-and-liberal at September 27, 2004 05:30 AM
Post a comment









Remember personal info?