The thing is, that being libertarian in philosophy and being a member of the libertarian party are becoming increasingly distinct. The libertarian party of the US right now are just a bunch of greedy leftists. Most real libertarians have joined the GOP. But i don't think libertarianism and conservatism are incompatible. For example, a true libertarian answer to roe vs. wade would be to leave abortion up to the states, which is considered a 'socially conservative' position. However, the media has defined libertarian as being 'socially liberal' and 'fiscally conservative.' What a libertarian believed abortion policy would be within those states would depend on their personal views rather than their views on the role of the federal government.

Dinesh D'Souza puts it best when he says that libertarianism is a philosophy of government, while conservatism is a philosophy of life, so you can be a conservative with a mostly libertarian view of how the government should work.

Well, I think that it's possible to be a good Republican without engaging in ideological kamikaze campaigns...The tendecy of some of the conservative members of our party to embargo and withold votes from progressive Republicans is, I think, counter-productive to broadening the appeal of the party and actually winning elections. At the end of the day, people at the conservative and liberal ends of the spectrum have to ask themselves if they would rather have some of their agenda advanced by a candidate in office, or none of their agenda advanced by a candidate in office. In New York City, for example, there is very little chance, demographically, that a genuine conservative--in every sense of that word--can win a city-wide office. There is, however, a good chance that a Republican could win a city-wide office--by ideological moderation--and it's happened in the last three mayoral cycles. My point: moderation and inclusion are not necessarily bastardizations of conservatism. They are "strategery."

I don't know if I like all you people running around making up your own minds without supervision by someone from the RNC. Makes me nervous.

I am heartned by Karol's words though I think too much of the conservative movement is too wrapped up in the GOP for its own good. "We are conservative" yell the Soviet Republicans (they serve the party well comrade) as the GOP abandons conservatives on immigration, moral issues, life, and other matters (I suspect we'll see a Bush sellout on taxes soon-like father, like son).

And yes some of us would vote for a pro life Dem over a prochoice Republican. Hell, if I lived in PA, I might be tempted to vote for prolife Dem Bob Casey to punish Santorum for his sell out of Toomey.

But here's the rub. The boogey men, be it Carter or Clinton or Kerry or Hillary get dragged out. Oh conservatives have to vote for Rudy over Hillary the Soviet Republicans will say. Lesser of two evils and all that. The problem is if the lesser of two evils grows increasingly worse.

I think it will take something drastic for the conservative-libertarian alliance to shatter in the shortrun. With some of the leading candidates for the Republican nomination like Romney, Pataki, Rudy (some would say McCain) not being pro-life, that could lead to the crack up. But I suspect only that could do it in the short run.

I've got a newsflash for y'all: conservatives and libertarians are not the same.

You've got that right. Libertarians don't use the word "y'all."

Good post! I was utterly stunned to see that Radley Balko went to that, and mildly surprised that Ryan Sager did.

The only response I can get when I raise the issue is "why not -- it's good for networking."

Puh-leeze.

The Republican Party and political elections are simply a means to an end, and not the end in itself. The "end" is issues and policy outcomes. The "party" and elections are merely the available vehicles to promote conservative candidates and, thus, conservative issues and policies. Conservative policies will never be enacted if we moderate our positions to elect RINOs. The ability to formulate and articulate a reasoned and logical defense of our policy positions is what separates conservatives from RINOs on down to socialists, and places conservatives at the highest level of the ideological food chain.

I'm preparing a post on this, but from a conservative Christian point of view. Very interesting dynamics going on here! I'll link to your post.

What I find unsettling is that conservatives are starting to take on a siege/protectionist/nativist mentality. You would not have thought we won anything this year.

One of the dangers for conservatives, and checks for democracy, is that convincing wins like this last election's generally don't last for very long. The hubris of the winning party becomes too much. This convention, based on Sager's observations, seem like just that.

The media will play up the "religious" highjacking of the Republican party, and there may be a few seats to be lost.

I guess in a technical sense this is good for democracy.

His description of the convention was completely off. If anything about CPAC this year was noticeable it was the amount of conflict within the conservative movement with regards to the policy issues. The theme of the conference was more than anything: We've won, so what do we do now.

The other theme is the growing dissatisfaction with President Bush on domestic policies, including spending, illegal immigration, judges, medicare, and of course social security.

I think religious right is the Republican past, and Libertarian is the Republican future. I think most of the young people coming into the Republican Party are of a Libertarian bent.

The Libertarians are fools to go it alone when I think they can eventually control the Republican Party.

In response to Alex B. comment.
"For example, a true libertarian answer to roe vs. wade would be to leave abortion up to the states, which is considered a 'socially conservative' position."

Wouldnt' the Libertarian answer to Roe Vs Wade be that if a person wants an abortion and someone agrees to perform the procedure then the gov't including State gov't should leave them be?

My question is only in relation to Alex's comment and not to do with protecting the unborn. Which is another debate all together.

Jake, you and what army?....;-)

Reading Ryan's comments, isn't he talking about "libertarian-leaning conservatives" - not libertarians per se. I don't think he expected to see more full-on libertarians. He just didn't expect to see so many social conservatives at a conference generically labeled as conservative - it's CPAC, not SCPAC. (That said, he really should have taken one look at who shows up at CPAC and figured it out...)

I don't know what a libertarian-leaning conservative is. There may be some overlap in thinking on economic issues but that's not a definite and plenty of libertarians are pro-life (one major characteristic of 'social' conservatives). Both libertarianism and conservatism are schools of thought. You can subscribe to aspects of both, sure, but to attend a gathering of specifically conservatives and expect libertarians to be aplenty is odd. Again, I hope Ryan covers Freedom Fest and writes about the lack of conservatives there.

Karol,

Regarding the moonbat Brooklyn teacher who directed the anti-American letters to the war bound PFC (Jacobs), look what your resident cunt-face moonbat posted at Captain Normal directed toward the soldier's sister.

My Dear Ms. LC ima mommy:

Please believe me when I say that you, your brother, your father, and the rest of your mealy-mouthed, self-serving family can go fuck yourselves.

You've been all over the right wing blogs today whipping up sympathy just so you can ride this story into your own little fifteen minutes of reality-show stardom. No doubt many slack-jawed yokels will gladly step up to feed your weazel-like jones to get your ugly pock-marked kissers on teevee.

But I can see you for what you are---media whores tarting yourselves up for your close-ups.

Bugger off, bitch.

Posted by: Don Myers | February 22, 2005 03:49 PM

Is anyone surprised? With only the tiniest prodding every leftist morphs into the hateful, spiteful, venomous snakes they all are. They are all Useless Eaters™

See the rest of the sewage: http://captainnormal.typepad.com/captainnormal/2005/02/anger_addicts_p.html#comments

So Don's back from Vancouver? Cool.

Also, did anyone else find it weird that a soldier stationed in South Korea got those letters?

I'd say folks like you are precisely the "libertarian-leaning" conservatives he was talking about... Conservatives who see the state as playing a smaller role (while still having some role) in promoting a social agenda.

Ding Dong Meyers is having his ignorant moonbat ass sliced, diced and gerbil stuffed over at the Rottweiler!

Go check out the fun!

So how would you label someone who believes in vast personal freedoms (legalize prostitution, acceptance and tolerance of all regardless of race, sexuality or ideology, pro-choice, would consider legalizing drugs and gambling), strong separation of church and state (but also staunchly against discriminating against religious organizations in the name of separation of church and state), the free market as the starting point for an economic system, but with a strong centralized government to fill in the holes (i.e., account for hidden costs, tragedies of the commons, etc.), looking to the health of the nation and world on a long term, 20-80 year view point, rather than a 2-10 year viewpoint, and (as a goal) greater world governance and international agreements (especially relating to arms and the environment)?

Moderate, maybe?

(what label for) the free market as the starting point for an economic system, but with a strong (aka domineering and unrestricted) centralized government to fill in the holes

A EuroPEON, socialist jizzbag. Maybe short of a commie, but not much.

Speaking as a libertarian, I think abortion should be handled in a way that restricts the powers of governments. Since pregnant women have the power of life and death over their fetuses, they count as governments and their powers should be restricted.