Let's see, can't hang out with women, can't hang out with men...

Yep, I'm thinking the root cause of terrorism is sexual frustration.

Dr Zahar condemned homosexual marriage, saying: “Are these the laws for which the Palestinian street is waiting? For us to give rights to homosexuals and to lesbians, a minority of perverts and the mentally and morally sick?”

So the Christian right and Hamas do at least have one thing in common :)

That second part of the quote made me wonder why we gave a state to the Republicans.

Yes, yes, Englishman and Ugarte, very clever. Let me know when Republicans, or the Christian right, have open debates about the best way to kill gay people the way the Muslim leaders do. Shall we bury them to their necks and stone them or shall we drop a wall on them? Comparing the issue of gay marriage, which is something like an 80-20 issue in America (against, in case anyone was wondering) to the very exclusion of gay people from all society everywhere in the Muslim world is more than a little ridiculous and actually lessens the argument for gay marriage by showing actual trauma that gay people face in the Muslim world and comparing it to this one problem they have in America.

And, Ugarte, you do realize that both of your Democratic Senators are against gay marriage, right? As are nearly all senators. So....what's the 'Republican' point you're trying to make?

Sorry Karol. I just thought that Dr Zahar's description of homosexuals as "perverts and the mentally and morally sick" was the same view held by many in the Christian Right.

After all, if they are violating biblical law, what better description for them?

(I know you didn't imply it, but I also want to make clear that I don't equate the Christian Right with Republicans. Just because the Christian Right supports the Republican Party does not mean that the Republican Party necessarily agrees with all of their views.)

However, I hope your contention that 80 per cent of people are against gay marriage is not correct. As that, to me, smacks of the same prejudices Dr Zahar and his kind espouse.

In fact, I think and I hope, that far more people in this country are in favor of gay marriage than that 80 per cent you say we are to believe.

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head. I was equating Republicans with terrorists. Pretty thin skin there, K.

Also, I finally made it to Spumoni Gardens. Good, but I certainly won't make a habit of going out of my way to get there.

"Yep, I'm thinking the root cause of terrorism is sexual frustration."

Suicide instead of sex.

Englishman, it is something close to 80/20. Look at Oregon. One of the more liberal states, which voted for John Kerry by a wide margin, voted in a anti gay marriage amendment during the last election. There's a reason that Ted Kennedy is probably the only Senator who has come out for gay marriage. If the Senators from NY are against gay marriage and the Dem presidential candidates are all against gay marriage, who is for it?

Ugarte, you didn't compare them with terrorists but you did compare them with a murderous fundamentalism that isn't anywhere near the kind the Christian right practices.

Jake, Suicide instead of sex. Maybe they should take up cutting to get their frustrations out.

Oh, and you've got to be kidding about L&B, Ugarte. It rocks.

No, I compared retrograde attitudes about homosexuality that are, in fact, exactly the same. That the fundamentalists here aren't about the killing says more about America than it does about fundamentalism. You chose your bedfellows. (And don't get me started on how embarrasssing it is that the Dems candidates don't have the balls to confront this issue head on, but I guess I'd rather have pussy pragmatists than true believers.)

Re: L&B -- Good tangy sauce on the squares. A nice char on the regular slices that is rare in a regular pizza oven joint. Tasty spumoni and even better chocolate soft serve. Still, not worth the drive out if I weren't already in my car in the middle of nowhere (Mill Basin) checking out a possible Craigslist couch purchase.

Why do you assume they're not true believers? I mean, the voters who voted in the amendment are Democrats who aren't running for office. And, your leaders do represent their constituencies. If it was an even remotely popular issue, they'd be for it in a heartbeat.

"I guess I'd rather have pussy pragmatists than true believer."

Ugarte is saying that Democrats always lie when they speak in public. Karol, you have been saying that for many years.

Maybe they should take up cutting to get their frustrations out.

Or, you know, a less painful hobby...like Feng Shui.

Karol, this may be a stupid question but are you against gay marriage? And if so, why?

Jake, exactly. I remain fascinated by the fact that John Kerry repeated again and again that his gay marriage position was idenitical to Bush's, yet no Democrat believed him and people actually voted for him because Bush is against gay marriage.

Englishman,
I'm ok with gay marriage (I wouldn't say I'm 'for', and certainly not 'against', it because it's just not in my top 10, or even 20 issues) but I feel that it's a job for the legislature, not the courts. But, I absolutely don't think comparing people who are against gay marriage to people who are against the very existence of gay people is very fair.

Karol and Jake - it comes down to what you think that a candidate will do about the issue. That Clinton signed DOMA into law is why, well, I hate Clinton. (One of the reasons, anyway. He was a 1st Amendment nightmare also.)

Kerry spoke about gay marriage when asked but nobody (of either party) actually believes that he thinks about the issue much one way or another. It is a sad fact that the majority of both parties is against gay marriage, but it is also a fact that only one party spends time aggressively using it as a wedge issue. The Democrat pandering is embarrassing and cedes ground that shouldn't be ceded, but if nobody raised the issue they wouldn't address it at all. The Republican legislating and demagoguery is objectively, actively harmful to homosexuals.

Anyway, the people campaigning hardest against gay marriage aren't the Federalists who consider it a state decision (since they also campaign against state gay marriage laws or constitutional interpretations); they aren't just the "sanctity of marriage" folks (since they also campaign against civil unions, adoption rights, next of kin rights, etc.) They are the evangelicals and their ilk who actually are against gay people.

Hey Karol!
I'm just popping in because I'm bored at work and because I enjoy debunking the myths you post on your site. Since your site does generate a substantial amount of hits (for whatever reason), I feel that someone has to keep all of your craziness in check.
"an 80-20 issue in America"
1.)Again, you cite that 80-20 figure without giving a source. The shit that comes out of you is incredible! Even though your comparison makes no sense, it is still worth pointing out that that Oregon is not representative of the United States. As an occasional part-time Texan (my parents live there), I can even let you know that in Texas certain places are approaching the 50-50 mark on the issue. In fact, a poll by the Houston Chronicle last year posted the following results:
Supportive: 39%
Against: 55%
Unsure: 6%
Shocking? I don't think so.
Please spare us with your 80-20 crap from now on.
"Muslim leaders"
2.) Nothing could be worse than making such a sweeping generalization about Muslim leaders. What other Muslim leaders are you referencing? Specifics? You are just trying to get GLBT persons to jump on your Muslim hate-campaign band wagon. In fact, a lot of gay Muslims I know feel less comfortable here in the United States than they do in their own countries. Another myth, debunked on its face.
"one issue"
3.) No comment necessary.
4.) Kerry's marriage position is not "identical" to that of President Bush. Another lie, exposed! On the issue of marriage in general, Bush supports absolutely no recognition of same-sex couples while John Kerry (even though I think he's spineless for that) supports "full equality" for same-sex couples in a new form of civil unions that would allow for that. HRC would not have given Kerry such an enthusiastic endorsement had his positions been parallel to W's.

I'll close with some questions not relating directly to this matter: Given the recent alerts in NYC, are you still not willing to have your bags searched? Do you still support racial profiling in light of the fact that British officers shot dead a BRAZILIAN national?

Chew on that!

Karol. Sorry for coming back to this so late, my father-in-law arrived from Europe today. I also don't want to appear like I am picking a fight. I'm not. But my point was that the Religious Right and Hamas share a belief in their antagonism towards homosexuals.

Now, you say that you don't think:

comparing people who are against gay marriage to people who are against the very existence of gay people is very fair.

I was just pointing out that Zahar's contention that homosexuals were "perverts and the mentally and morally sick" is probably similar to the beliefs of people on the Religious Right worldwide who oppose homosexuality.

Now if it turns out that those views are similar to an Islamic extremist who thinks homosexuals should not exist (information which I did not see in that article) then what does it say about the people on the Religious Right who so oppose not just gay marriage but homosexuality in general?

And how can you not be for or against one of the most divisive issues in US politics today? When you say that you are "okay" with it but also not "for" and not "against", do you mean that privately you support homosexual marriage but you don't think it should be allowed because the majority of American voters are against it? How can you support something but not believe that it should be?

I personally think that forbidding homosexual marriage is an anachronism. And it's days are numbered. But that must already be obvious by the length of time I have spent on this post!

Phil, you don't do yourself any favors do you?

Englishman,

It's hard, if not impossible, to care about every issue. The fact that the issue is divisive is neither here nor there to me. I'm pretty much the same way on abortion. I consider myself pro-life these days but it doesn't make the list of things that really, really matter to me. Just because we're supposed to care about something, doesn't mean we actually will. Like, make up a list of your top 10 issues. I bet you'll have divisive, important issues that won't make the cut.

Phil, shouldn't you be leaving anonymous, juvenile comments about me on other blogs? I know I'm awesome and everything but your obsession with me has gotten a little old.

Let me know when Republicans, or the Christian right, have open debates about the best way to kill gay people the way the Muslim leaders do.

Here ya go Karol:

http://www.hatecrime.org/subpages/hatespeech/hate.html

"Unless we get medically lucky, in three or four years, one of the options discussed will be the extermination of homosexuals." - Dr. Paul Cameron - Pat Buchanan and William Bennett's favorite researcher.

Since when did gay marriage become an 80-20 issue?

Show me one national poll with those numbers.

Almost all of the gay marriage referendums have been held in red states. As soon as you get to a moderate state like Ohio (still a red state), the number approaches 60 percent. And the midwest is not exactly favorable to gay people. And of course, the numbers FAVOR gay marriage in states like Massachusetts, Connecticut, New York, and New Jersey. California divides 50/50.

Sorry - but the national numbers on this issue are more like 55-40.

You are mistaken.

Downtown Lad:

This Cameron guy may be a nutcase, but that quote of his in your comment is not part of a debate within the Republican party about the best way to kill gay people. There is no such debate. Republicans and the Religious Right do not support murdering gay people. Many in these groups may not be fans of gay rights, but that is a different issue. Islamists, on the other hand, have no problem with killing people who they do not like.

Dan - Perhaps you should study the history of gay rights in this country. South Carolina had the death penalty for being gay until the 1860's.

I don't think most Republicans want to kill gay people. But they do want to put them in jail. Including our President George Bush, whose official policy to this day is that gays deserved to be imprisoned.

He said so as recently as 1994 and has yet to recant it. Why else do you think conservatives are in such a huff of the Lawrence V. Texas decision, and are clamoring to overturn it.

But yes, you're right. Only a small minority of Republicans actually want gays to be executed, probably on the order of 10-15% of Republicans.