I don't like to be forbidden to take photographs on a public street in American city.

tell her to try to take pictures on the street in front of the empire state building, or on the way to the brooklyn battery tunnel or of me when i'm leaving my building.

Dawn, I've seen you and didn't find you impressive enough to photograph.

And I wouldn't equal your worth to this nation to that of our landmarks.

Only military/national security objects are prohibited for photography; NY is full of tourists taking shots of attractions.

IN SOVIET RUSSIA, LANDMARKS PHOTOGRAPH YOU!!!!!

P.S. I think Dawn is very photo-worthy; Jesus Christ, those are some curves. Don't hate.

Then, Joe, you should attempt to take a shot of Dawn yourself. At your own risk.

So, where's this store front at? I'd gladly take some pictures. I can think of one or two that would probably be happy to join me too. (A nice, big,, shiny, candy-like button ignorantly displayed with pride...me likey). Pray tell...

And to be sued for igniting "religious intolerance"?

It would be more helpful if yopu were an attorney and visit the precinct with me, to see the commander - and try to obtain the police report.
Yes, I'm told I can't read what's in police report.

Generally, the NYPD doesn't just give out a copy of a police report upon request, there's a bunch of hoops through which one has to jump.

Visiting a police station, any police station, with an attorney isn't going to endear you to them. If you do, don't tell them you are with an attorney unless they ask you directly. Just ask them to quietly observe and advise you afterwards.

Alceste and Chris are right. If you go to the station, the purpose is to clarify, not antagonize. It was not fair for the police to tell you that you were breaking a law when you clearly were not.

Thanks, all, especially for the link.

So it's not true that I can't obtain the police report: I just have to ask for it in writing and pay a fee. I wasn't told that when I called the precinct.

Sam, police didn't specifically tell me what law I was breaking; the officer said I'm harassing these people and that I've instigated the incident.

There could be two reasons for visiting the police station, alone or with a friend/attorney:

1) to complain to the commanding officer on the information and conduct of his inferiors
2) to get the copy of the police report.
I'm not interested in 1) until I see from the report the description of the incident and I see that I can do 2) through writing; good enough for me.

In the please don't take this as legal advice category because I am not a criminal lawyer, last looked at crim law when taking the bar seven years ago and do not intend for this to be more than an uninformed opinion, I think this may be at most something like harassment in the second degree (a violation - not technically a crime) since there was no threat of physical contact on your part and you were out on the street. They likely tried to get you to use insults about their religion because there are religion-based aggravated harassment laws (but I don't think anything you did fits in - you should look (or have someone look for you) at the new york penal code somewhere in the mid-200's - you should be able to find it online...)

Tatyana: Along the lines of what Alceste said, according to your account, they accused you of using insulting/racist language before the police arrived. When you read the police report make sure to see if the allegation was documented in the report.

Karol: Any intention of spelling Tatyana's name in the main post the way that she does?

Karol: Any intention of spelling Tatyana's name in the main post the way that she does?

Yes, my bad. Fixing now.

tell her to try to take pictures on the street in front of the empire state building, or on the way to the brooklyn battery tunnel or of me when i'm leaving my building.

No worries: Dawn's image would never appear!

;-)

Charles and Alceste,
hmmm...I did called him stupid in return
(like in
He: Stooupid Bitch! Stooupid Bitch!
I: You're the one who's stupid.
- something like that...)
and I said as much to the officers when they asked.

Thank you for this important bit.

Disclaimer: this is not legal advice.

I think you should consider filing a complaint against the cop.

The cops took cross complaintent harassment reports. One for the Muslims and one Tatyana. This was a simple verbal dispute. A harassment report rarely gets taken at all in these situations unless someone demands one.
I don't think either party is guilty of harassment anyway. The only subdivision of harassment this could be under is:
Harassment is to alarm or seriously annoy for no
legitimate purpose.
That didn't happen here what we have here is a verbal dispute about taking pictures.
Now if the cops knew the truth of what happened they should have told the muslims that in America you can take pictures of anything you want that is in a public place.
The cops probably told you not to take their pictures anymore because it was causing a problem and the Muslims felt harassed. Going back to the definition of harassment, it must be for no legitimate purpose. So when the cop asked you if you were affiliated with an official organization and doing it for official purpose: for a school project, a newspaper article and such. He was determining if your actions that annoyed the muslims were legitamate or not.
Since the muslims lied about what happened and made you seem much worse than you are the cops told you to stop. Not because what you were doing was illegal but in order to keep the peace. After all you have the ability to stop taking pictures and walk away. The muslims were reacting to something that you were doing and they can't just walk away because that is where there store is.
Just some things to consider before filing a complaint against the cop.

Wow. Didn't know we had one set of laws for muslims and an entirely different set for the rest of us. That she thought it was interesting that muslims were prostelitizing on the street is a legitimate purpose to take a photo. She was entirely within her rights. To call taking a few photos of people who are in a public place harassment is bullshit.

The muslims were reacting to something that you were doing and they can't just walk away because that is where there store is.

Or, she was reacting to something the muslims were doing, prostelitizing in a public place. Not only did they have the ability to walk away, they had the duty to do so -- not her, if they were so damn offended. Instead, they curse at her, menance her, and call the police and lie to them.

You've changed my mind, Paul. Tatyana should file a complaint against the police.

This is dumb. Tatyana was trying to piss these people off, the cops recognized it and scared her off with a "police report".

They did it so they don't come back to see a more serious incident.

I agree with Dan. A cops main goal is never to be called upon. They will say as much to you as necessary so that this situation does not repeat itself. The cops are not giving the muslims any special rights here. Thinking so is just an indirect prejudice against the muslims.

Think like the cop for a minute: one girl taking photos of several angry muslims in fron of their shop. Which is easier an easier solution for the cops- prevent the girl from taking more photos, or convincing the muslims to move their shop, and understand that being photographed is nothing to be annoyed by.

T - you have every reason to be annoyed by being called a stooopid bitch, but thats all you need to worry about. This is just one group of nuts. I've photographed muslims plenty of times in Brooklyn, accompanied by my "scandalously" clad wife, and have never gotten a single complaint.

By the way: what neighborhood is this?

So, are you offering her your scandously clad wife so she can go and take photos and not be harassed by islamofreaks?

Huh? delbrians, where did you get the idea one of the choices cops had was "convincing the muslims to move their shop"?
Besides, I'm tired of attempts to tie my reaction to intimidation and violation of my civil rights with my opinion of Islam, etc.
Those are NOT related. If the shop-keeper was Macedonian Christian or Tibetan Buddhist and treated me in the way I described, I'd reacted in same way.
The religion/origins of the abuser can explain his unfamiliarity with American freedoms, but shouldn't be used as an excuse.

No, there is not a different set of laws for the Muslims and one for Tatyana. Tatyana took the pictures, yes? Did the cops confiscate the film, nope. The cops arrived there and found people in the street yelling at each other and having a verbal dispute about something that already happened. The pictures being taken. Tatyana stuck around to defend her right to take pictures and argue with the muslims. At this point they were already arguing and filing harassment charges at each other. Take into account the muslims lying about the things Tatyana did and it seems like taking more pictures once this errupted is being done solely to further antagonize the muslims and inflame the situation. The cops just want to end the dispute before it escalates either by everyone making up or by one party leaving.
It's unfortunate that at that time she was told she could not take pictures but at the time it was being tied into harassment. Atleast thats my take on it.
I'm not sure going back and taking more pictures is a good idea. The muslims will probably call the cops again and tell the cops they filed a report against you and you were back to further harrass them. The cops would probably tell you to leave because you had no legitimate purpose to be there. And if they got called back again and caught you there you might get arrested.

Disturbing the peace is not a civil right and your actions can be perceived as just that. Disturbing the peace.

You may not be wrong in principal but it is wrong for you to waste the time of the Police, who probably have much more important things to do than take your side in a philisophical argument.

Oh by the way....

Shana Tova !!!

The truth is if this wasn't muslim missionarys the cops would have handled this completely differently. The cops are afraid to create a religious incident and have to be way to PC.
That is the only reason the cops who got thier first decided to call their patrol supervisor instead of handling it themselves.

Another thing. Tatyana wrote about Higgins:
"that taking pictures of the store (let me remind you - on a public street, a public sidewalk) is asking for trouble, because my actions are bothering the owner, and I am lucky that the owner didn't get physical with me. He said it in a tone of voice implying that the owner was justified to "get physical"."

I think his voice implied that you are lucky it didn't turn physical because there are a lot of crazy people in this city and picking fights with crazy muslims as a girl by herself is risky.
I don't believe for a minute he implied justification to get physical with you.

Yet another set of stramen (it started to look like a small army).
Paul, can you read my account?

People were not "yelling at each other": I didn't yell, I was yelled at. In fact, I said next to nothing while the screaming was going on. I did not "argue with the muslims".
I talked to the police once they arrived - and when they asked me to communicate with the other party, I complied.
I wasn't going to file any charges, initially, while I believed men in the uniform will arrive and resolve the misunderstanding.
One of the policemen suggested it to me, after our conversation, and I agreed.

Why you keep advising me do not return and take more pictures? I had made as many as I wanted to for my purpose, and have no need or intention to come back with the camera. And please, don't insult my intelligence and try to frighten me with possible arrest. On what grounds? Nobody filed a restriction order against me; there is no case, no court decision, no judge's declaration against me taking any pictures. So if the fancy to take pictures strikes me, I will.

dan the ex - you might make an effort and read what happened, and repeat this laborous excersize until you'll comprehend the text (I know, my English is horrible, but - just for the sport of it):
I. Did. Not. Call. The. Police. My abuser did.
Therefore, "wasting the time of police" applies to the party you favor.

Paul, I see we were typing at the same time.

You, naturally, are entitled to your opinion. As I am to mine. The difference is - you were not there and couldn't decipher intonations, and I was.

It's not what happened it's what can be proved.

They will say you yelled, you say they yelled. You confirmed in your story that they told the Police you were yelling and cursing. They have witnesses you do not except for the Police. Who don't seem to be completely taking your side anyway. They [police] probably think of you as being difficult.

I was actually taking your side and giving you insight into what the police might be thinking in my own opinion and how it related to your expression of civil liberty.

But,

What are you trying to accomplish ?

I'm starting to think you like breakin balls.

Disturbing the peace is not a civil right and your actions can be perceived as just that. Disturbing the peace.

Like using offensive words in a public place which are inherently likly to provoke an immediate violent reaction? Oh, wait, . . . that was the muzzies who were disturbing the peace!

Hi Sam how have you been? I see you're still using my work.

I agree with you. But Tat could get in trouble as well because they will "say" she was yelling and cursing too and if they have another confrontation they would lie again. So they both get charged with some BS disturbing the peace misdemeanor I think it would hurt her more than those people (in the pictures) just from a record standpoint. "a.k.a. not worth it"

Tatyana, I am completely on your side in this.
If ya don't want my advise then fine but I'm only trying to help you.
I didn't know if you intended to go back or not but you did go back a second time after being yelled at the first time...I just told you what might happen if you kept going back.
No, the police won't arrest you for 'taking pictures' that is not what i said. They will arrest you for harassment or disorderly conduct. When you try to explain and justify why you are back for a 4th time after being told by the police not to go back and take pictures the cops will say "tell it to the judge" while they put you in cuffs.

For the record, I don't think you harassed anyone by the way you described the incident. But the muslims lied to the cops about you going in the store, taking pictures in the store, yelling, calling them names, ect... Some of this must have gone on the report for them to even bother taking the report in the first place.

One of the truths about law enforcement is that the person who called 911 automatically gains some credibility over the other person.

Hi Sam how have you been? I see you're still using my work.

Sue me. Bwaaaaahhhhhh!

So they both get charged with some BS disturbing the peace misdemeanor . . .

For reasons too long to explain, dealing with prosecutorial discretion, filing guidelines and the inability to convince a jury of each and every element beyond a reasonable doubt, no, they couldn't trump up a charge against her.

"For reasons too long to explain, dealing with prosecutorial discretion, filing guidelines and the inability to convince a jury of each and every element beyond a reasonable doubt, no, they couldn't trump up a charge against her."

Hahahaha sam. I arrest people for a living as a NYC cop and what you wrote above is not how the system works.
A person can get arrested for such a stretch of the law for reasons like:
1. A Cop is looking for overtime.
2. A cop wants an arrest to boost his numbers of arrest for career purposes or to meet an illegal quota the department calls "productivity goals".
Arrests in situations like discon, harrarment, menacing and assault are very abbritary and the cop has a lot of discretion in how he handles it. Arrest, warning, a criminal summons in leau of arrest.
Sometimes shaky supervisors show up and make you arrest somebody that you don't think should get arrested.

The assistant district attourneys will prosecute almost anything we bring them!
90% of the cases get pleaded out and never see a court room.

That's how it works kido.

The assistant district attourneys will prosecute almost anything we bring them!

I was a DA for 12 years. Thanks again for talking out of your ass, Paul.

Paul, even if half of what you say about arrest-happy cops is true, why would cops spend their time making vague threats to an obviously law-abiding citizen while letting groups like the Queen's based Islamic Thinkers Society get away with making terroristic threats and criminal anarchy?

Think that Radical Islam is something in the Middle East. No it exists right here in NYC. Ever heard of the Islamic Thinkers Society. You can find them on the streets publicly burning flags and etc, screaming about their hate for America, and how the next time there is an attack in NYC it will get all of it.

I mean, members of this group have obvious al Qaeda connections, and they're allowed to walk the streets?

I'll bet they can even carry a camera.

Why are members of this group free to walk around New York City, to do as they please, while the rights of law abiding citizens are randomly threatened?

Well I shouldn't have said people get arrested for vast stretches of the law. That doesn't happen too often.
What I meant to say is that when some people are breaking certain laws cops can handle it a lot of different ways and often they don't arrest or summons at all. Most cops most the time are not arrest happy and that is why these people who could get arrested don't get arrested and get told to go home or leave or are given warning after warning until they finally listen.

In Tatyana case in the scenario i described she could easily get arrested and prosecuted for discon or harassment. But to think Tatayana wouldn't get arrested is foolish especially if she runs into cops 'looking' for an arrest.

I once saw Michael Moore (I think) picketing a building (which is why I'm guessing Moore). The cops were called, and the security guys in the building made all sorts of claims about trying to break in etc. Moore(?) then said "let's review the videotape we have", and suddenly the security guys were seen to be the liars.
I mention this because whenever there is a one against a few/many situation, the one can have all sorts of spurious claims made against them and there isn't a damn thing short of a videotape which will cast doubt on their 'guilt'.

In Tatyana case in the scenario i described she could easily get arrested and prosecuted for discon or harassment.

No, she could not get easily prosecuted. In no way is snapping a few pictures harassment. It's already been established that the police in this incident were more than willing to intimidate and lie to the party who committed no crime. Why you insist on defending this type of behavior beats me.

It's just like the muzzies to take a law against harassment, turn it around, and use it to harrass other people. The muslims are always making bogus claims of hate crimes and using them for propaganda purposes.

In Tatyana case in the scenario i described she could easily get arrested and prosecuted for discon or harassment. But to think Tatayana wouldn't get arrested is foolish especially if she runs into cops 'looking' for an arrest.

You're doing it again, threatening a citizen who is NOT breaking the law while ignoring the existence of a genuine terrorist organization that is openly operating in New York City. Did you you even follow the link to the Islamic Thinkers Society? The group was founded by Flushing's Syed "Fahad" Hashmi, who was arrested in London on charges he moved funds and military gear to terror camps in Pakistan. According to the New York Post, this group is terrorizing neighborhoods in New York City:

:::

The Queens chapter of an international jihadist group - founded by the Brooklyn College grad accused of being an al Qaeda sympathizer - is terrorizing people in the extremist's old stomping grounds, residents said yesterday.

"They have a lot of hatred [but] the police said they can't do anything about them," Kana Chauhan, president of the Jackson Heights Merchants Association, said of the radical group Al Muhajiroun.

:::

Here's more about the organization, and the police reaction to them:

:::

Ryan Mauro: First of all, Kristine, what got you involved in looking at the activities of these Islamic protesters you are warning about?

Kristine Withers: I noticed a group of Muslim men, demonstrating against the War on Terror and advocating the pro-fundamentalist Islam view, about 6 months after 9/11/01. I could not help notice them because they were demonstrating a block from me, which is also a busy commercial area for the Islamic-Hindu merchants, in an area I frequent because of the stores and transportation (to get to the subway). They had signs showing the 9/11 tragedy and were handing out brochures advocating fundamentalist Islamic. Upon research, based upon their literature, I found out they were connected with the Al-Muhajiroun group. At that time their brochure contained web links to that fundamentalist websites. I notified the NYPD anti terrorist taskforce, and this group disappeared...

..Then around late May of 2003 I noticed the same people were out demonstrating again in the same area. They also knew who I was. I again notified the NYPD, and was told they had a permit...I observed them to gain more information, but that let to verbal sparring with them. I admit it was a bad tactic, but I was genuinely offended that the people that were declaring war against my country, and western civilization, were there to recruit potential terrorist.

RM: Can you describe how you've been threatened and in your view, treated unfairly?

KW: My friend and I were walking our dogs, when we heard some loud voices. As we walked the voices became clearer, then we saw the a group of Islamic men demonstration. They had a loud amplifiers, they were about 3 feet tall, that was blaring out something in Arabic....During this period (approx.. 20 mins before the police arrived) I turned down the rest of the signs, and held off a growing angry crowd of mad Muslims. They were telling me how wicked America and I was. A
member of the group was also telling me, "we will kill you", and "next time we will get all of NYC"

This even after I informed them that I was assaulted, a fact which was verified by a few witnesses. When I asked the officer why they did not bring the people who assaulted me in, I was told that "since 9/11 we have to bend over backwards for them."

:::

When the police "bend over backwards" for terror supporting groups, do you think this makes ordinary New Yorkers feel safer? If someone sees activity that could be terrorist-related, do you think that the police habit of bending over backwards for radical groups will encourage them to report it?

If there's another terror attack, do you think that people will remember the "bend over backwards" policy with fondness, and will they show the police how much they appreciate the results of that policy?

mary,
complain to the Mayor and the Police Commissioner.
Tell the Local TV news networks about it. Get the Fox 5 problems solvers and similar TV news segments on them.

uh oh, Who pissed Mary off ???

Sam - where were you the DA ???

Rereading this whole event it seems Tat was specifically trying to irritate these people, they responded probably as she expected [wanted] by being crass, rude and potentially becoming violent. The worst thing I can see happening is this woman, Tat gets assaulted or a summons for disturbring the peace. The best case scenario is the Muslims let her take pictures at their store (???best???).

Mary-
I was not aware of any Al-Qada terrorist organization openly operating in Queens but I guess that would hurt President Bush's reputation with winning the war on terror and wouldn't get much play on these neo-con blogs.

Maybe we can organize a group of us and break the windows and firebomb the muslim places of business, where's Radical Redneck !!!!!

I slapped five with Rudy G. today, maybe I won't wash my hand and let U Cons touch it for a buck each. I'll then donate that money, along with DA Sam's royalty moneys, to building the 9/11 memorial.

complain to the Mayor and the Police Commissioner.

Maybe we can organize a group of us and break the windows and firebomb the muslim places of business, where's Radical Redneck !!!!!

Maybe the police can just stop bending over backwards to accomodate the Al-Muhajiroun. Maybe they could stop giving Muslim terrorists and extremists more rights and respect than we give law-abiding citizens, Muslims or not. Why do they need the mayor and Fox 5 to tell them to stop doing that - can't they figure it out for themselves?

I slapped five with Rudy G. today

Great! Was he in the city?

Yeah, he was downtown at the finish line of the Tunnel to Tower race. Typically anything 9/11 related tries to feature Rudy as the keynote.

Mary they have a permit.
Do they threaten innocent people that walk by or only the ones that stop and argue with them?
This is America. We have freedom of speech and assembly and it also protects muslims you disagree with.

I'm sure the CIA, FBI, NYPD and other agencys are keeping very close tabs on this group.

Do they threaten innocent people that walk by or only the ones that stop and argue with them?

Why should that matter? Is arguing with Muslims against the law? Which law is that?

Is arguing with Muslims who make terroristic threats or publicly discuss criminal anarchy against the law? Last time I checked, making terroristic threats and criminal anarchy were against the law, whether the Muslim in question is confronted by an uppity woman or not.

This is America. We have freedom of speech and assembly and it also protects muslims you disagree with.

The law also protects people who disagree with Muslims. It protects people who take pictures of Muslims in public places. The law protects people who may inadvertently offend Muslims. Why aren't you putting the same effort into protecting their rights?

Why were you going out of your way to intimidate them? Force of habit?

I'm sure the CIA, FBI, NYPD and other agencys are keeping very close tabs on this group.

That's not the issue. The issue is - are the police serving the public? Are they giving the average person confidence in their ability to do their job? Or are they showing favoritism towards a criminal group because they favor them and/or they're afraid of them?

If the police are afraid of a certain group, or if they're showing favoritism towards a certain group, people won't trust them to do their job. That's not going to help anyone fight terrorism or crime.

Mary, the police aren't personal bodyguards either. Your making some rather offensive suggestions about the NYPD.

An argument can be made that Tat's actions were not inadvertent.

Mary, the police aren't personal bodyguards either.

No, but they are supposed to stop criminal activity. That's their job.

An argument can be made that Tat's actions were not inadvertent.

The issue of Tat's photos started over this image, that she took of a table full of books in a public place.

The man standing near the store was enraged when she took a picture of these books.

Why would anyone get so angry about someone taking pictures of books? Have the police investigated that, or do they only care about bending over backwards to keep the Islamists happy?

They're not doing much about the obvious violations of the law that have been reported in the NYPost:

:::

The Queens chapter of an international jihadist group - founded by the Brooklyn College grad accused of being an al Qaeda sympathizer - is terrorizing people in the extremist's old stomping grounds, residents said yesterday.

"They have a lot of hatred [but] the police said they can't do anything about them," Kana Chauhan, president of the Jackson Heights Merchants Association, said of the radical group Al Muhajiroun...

..Meanwhile, nearly every Saturday for more than a year, Hashmi's buddies - who call themselves the Islamic Thinkers - have unloaded their propaganda from a minivan and set up a table festooned with anti-U.S. banners and fliers.

Then, shouting and using a megaphone, the young firebrands - most are in their 20s and early 30s - walk the street spewing hate.

"They display pictures of people dying in the war. They want people to feel they're right and get them thinking against [President] Bush and America," said Sarabjit Damber, 24.

"They're talking crap about America, saying, 'Bush is a terrorist,' or that 'America is not good, don't trust these people,' " he said.

The group also is suspected of trying to recruit second-generation Muslim immigrants to fight against America, police sources said. *

Fights often break out between the jihadists and passers-by, merchants said.

:::

This is a group that's terrorizing a neighborhood. The police reaction?

"since 9/11 we have to bend over backwards for them"

"They have a lot of hatred [but] the police said they can't do anything about them,"

Gee, maybe they could take the terrorists' permit away?

This group is terrorizing people. They're suspected of recruiting terrorists for al Qaeda and the police tell people that they "can't do anything about them." From the reports, they only intervene when someone backtalks the Al Muhajiroun- and their intervention is to protect the Al Muhajiroun . Does this make you feel confident in their ability to maintain the peace and treat everyone equally?

(* they try to recruit second-generation immigrants because first-generation immigrants aren't allowed to attack us. Islamic law forbids Muslims from attacking a nation that has given them refuge)

Excellant arguments, Mary.

More excellent arguments by Mary! :)

Arguments about what, LOL.

Demand the cops defend liberties by taking it away from others, I don't get the argument.

Even if they only spew hate the KKK, Nazis and others are given permits for marches I don't see those groups as any different than anti-bush islamists.

You're sadly mistaken if you think that 99% of NYC Cops wouldn't love to arrest the people in the group you provided the link to.

Maybe we can organize a group of us and break the windows and firebomb the muslim places of business, where's Radical Redneck !!!!!

Fuck that shit! Smashing up property isn't nearly enough. I go for the good ol' fashioned beatdown: more personal and MUCH more tangible.

But I have also come bearing gifts: I have a new, delightful pic of yours, Dawn's, barry's and (Pr)Nick's hero and idol!

Sam, you were a supreme court judge, why don't you pass judgement on a case that strips these hate groups of their "right to free speech" that they are abusing.

Mary vs. Islamic Jihad presided over by Judge Col. Sam

That's got a nice ring to it, guys make it happen!

HAHAHAHA good one Red.

I'm thinking of selling Chavez/Amidajahid bobbleheads in Tatyana's neighborhood, I hear there will be good demand.

Oh, look -- dan's posting drunk, again.

More excellent arguments by Mary! :)

Thanks, Sam.

I was the President of the United States for 12 years I'm entitled to a drink now and then.

bobbleheads in those neighborhoods, piniatas everywhere else!

"I was the President of the United States for 12 years I'm entitled to a drink now and then."

Shit, that's funny.

Mary, if you happen by any demonstration and barrack it, there will always be people who will try to give you a fat lip, be they hunt supporters or gay pride.

Mary, if you happen by any demonstration and barrack it, there will always be people who will try to give you a fat lip, be they hunt supporters or gay pride.

No, during presidential campaign demonstrations plenty of people were shouting at each other from all sides. No fat lips.

Even if they only spew hate the KKK, Nazis and others are given permits for marches I don't see those groups as any different than anti-bush islamists.

these aren't just anti-Bush islamists, they're al Qaeda. Al Muhajiroun=al Qaeda.

and yes, members of the KKK are arrested and jailed frequently for the same sorts of crimes

Mary,

I don't believe everthing I read on the internet. Your allegations about this terrorist organization alarm me. I've read on this blog and other places that Al-Qada has been squashed, dispersed, become ineffective. I never really believed it but...

Are you saying there are public, active Al-Qada cells operating in Queens, NY ???? Recruiting jihadists no less.....

I disagree with you about the Police being afraid, just handcuffed. I agree with you however if there is an Al-Qada group active (and public no less) they should be taken down immediately.

Al Muhajiroun is al Qaeda, which is why the British government attempted to ban the group and deport its leaders. Unfortunately, the group still exists there under a different name.

Here's a film of our local al Qaeda groups saying "Jews, Jews, the army of Mohammed is coming for you.", "CIA burn in hell.", "the Holocaust was a hoax". I'm not sure where they are, but it looks like the Collosium bookstore across from Bryant Park?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5BPVF1C5LE

More about them here.

I've often criticized the British for allowing terrorist groups to settle there, but apparently they're doing more to fight their local al Qaeda than we are.