Explain how the drop in minority applicants are a "result" of the program.
And also, explain how this program (which doesn't differentiate on the basis of race, right?) is affirmative action.

If you want my two cents, which I'm sure you don't, one explanation for the lack of diversity is that many in the FDNY are second or third generation firemen. An actual affirmative action program that actually did increase the number of minorities might then have a continuing effect and quickly make itself unneccesary. But that's only if you are actually interested in having a more diverse FDNY.

I heard something about this on the radio -- IIRC, someone was saying blacks don't have the "family tradition" of joining the NYFD.

Maybe they should include "illegal immigrants" to the hiring requirements. After all, they do the jobs Americans don't want to do.

Sam L, I think you misunderstand what Karol wrote.

She's not saying the program is 'to blame' for fewer minority applicants---rather, Karol is saying that despite an active outreach program, minorities still chose not to apply.

A person isn't likely to get the job unless they apply.

Lowering the standards to attract minorities to meet some artificial number is a stupid thing in the first place. (We are all either equally American or the country is done anyway). It will only result in more firefighters getting killed on the job. Firefighting is an 'in the blood' thing and if you don't have it you will never perform up to standards. As a volunteer with no compensation, try getting out of a warm bed at all hours of the night, with the only reason being to help your neighbors. Hundred of hours spent in training on everything from firefighting, medical care, vehicle extrication, farm machinery extrication and water rescue. It ain't easy and it ain't heroic, but it has to be done by people who care. Spent half of last night on car crashes, rain and fog on the way there and back. Da*n near crashed my own truck through a herd of deer. Spent 8 hours (volunteer) at the fire department today/tonight getting extra equipment serviced and ready for the next run.
Getting paid won't make a 'firefighter', dedication, the desire to help, and caring will. Screw affirmative action. Firefighter16

Here's an explanation of possible cause and effect: suppose you are a black man who could have met the earlier, higher entry requirements. Now you hear that because the NYFD wants fewer white guys, they've lowered the standards.

This sends a couple signals:
1. The NYFD thinks the only way it can get more non-whites is to lower standards
2. Even though I could have met the other standards, if I get in under this regime, everyone is going to assume I'm just not as capable as other applicants, because I'm not white

Therefore, a guy who may have been willing to try for the NYFD might decide to look elsewhere for a job, where he won't have the burden of suspicion on him.

And yes, some people really do go through this thought process, as I've done the same being a woman who has preferred math-heavy fields. I picked the actuarial profession, because starting out, at least, success is very objective and there are no "affirmative action" thumbs on the scale because I'm a chick.

Changing the rules for someone in a "underrepresented" group does nobody any favors. It would have been far better to stick to an active outreach than to change the entry requirements. And, if it turned out that non-whites who were qualified preferred to do something else, then that's the way it goes.

Everyone knows fires go out 30% faster when confronted with a diverse fire department.

Lowering the standards to attract minorities to meet some artificial number is a stupid thing in the first place.

What if those standards are set arbitrarily in the first place to limit the applicant pool size. What exactly do firefighters need college credits for, if not for a college degree?

And since when did substituting military experience for college constitute a lowering of standards for a firefighter. Hello, "under fire" isn't a euphemism for hiking in the park.

And how is having a population distribution of firefighters reflect the population at large 'artificial'? The broad population is constituted by real people.

Or maybe it's not in your honky world, where any change of standards for minorities is a 'lowering' and black people count three fifths of white people, and Puerto Ricans are the savage natives of the frontier territories.

Changing the rules for someone in a "underrepresented" group does nobody any favors.

What if that underrepresented group, or assemblage of underrepresented groups, constitutes the majority of your taxpayers? Effectively, you are redistributing wealth from a broad group to a narrow group of people. How is this different from taking NY tax dollars and building a bridge to nowhere in Alaska? You're right, it does no favors, actually, it attempts to rectify existing unfair favors.

Or maybe it's not in your honky world, where any change of standards for minorities is a 'lowering' and black people count three fifths of white people, and Puerto Ricans are the savage natives of the frontier territories.

Actually, in my world black, hispanic and all other people are just as capable as white people to do any job. They are not our pets, as liberals would have us believe.