Why is this a surprise? Watts is a hack who rose up quickly due to race and was exposed as someone who really was not cut out for House leadership. Of course race matters to the man. The GOP has a nasty habit of raising incompetents to power on race and race alone (como se dice Alphonso Jackson?).

Powell is not much of a shock. His social stances are much closer to Obama and he certainly would little use for the McCain 100 years in Iraq plan.

Karol,

Enh, I think a lot of what drives the angst is the pressure from the rest of the African-American community. Hard to go to a family summer barbecue and have everyone around you excited about Obama then mention you don't think he's qualified. Talk about the equivalent of dropping a deuce in the punch bowl...

Not to mention, a lot's gone on in 4 years. For example, the establishment GOP decided to go into the tank for the Hispanic vote by throwing up what was basically amnesty. In a lot of places, this has increased the tension between African-Americans and Hispanics attempting to compete for the same jobs (you know, the ones "Americans won't do"). Barring government enforcement, a manager's not going to hire the legal African-American (who might, you know, actually expect OSHA compliance) over the illegal Hispanic. I remember Real Clear politics doing a couple articles on this and I was pretty shocked at how bad things have gotten out in California in this regard. We won't even mention the low grade ethnic cleansing that MS-13 has been conducting.

Finally, yeah, the GOP hasn't done a lot of outreach towards black candidates at the grassroots level. Of course, I don't know what Watts is expecting when the AA community votes something like 80-90% Democrat (depending on where you're at). Or when simple policies get branded as "racist" by knuckleheads like Al Sharpton and no one steps up to challenge the good reverend. Perception can become reality, and maybe the perception of GOP leaders is that the African-American community has opted to remain a lost cause to Republicans. Given the party's issues with simply treading water this election (um, what was the NRCC's warchest looking like again?), I think it might be a bit much to expect them to gamble on an outreach program.

I'd say quoting someone's interview from 2004 is a little bit disingenuous. After all, George Bush won reelection in 2004...do you really think he could do the same right now? Heck, do you think he could even win a contested Congressional seat? Just sayin', I'd think the populace in general and GOP in particular would want folks with the ability to have their mental views evolve over 48 months.

I'm interested to see why you could take or leave Colin Powell. Don't get me wrong--I think it was a mistake for him to take SecState and, more importnatly, not to conduct himself a little more forcefully within the Bush Cabinet. ("Um, excuse me, why does the King of Saudi Arabia know that we're going to war before I do?")

Personally I can't see how Watts is torn. I don't care if Obama was purple, the man's not qualified. I'm not saying I'm pulling the lever for McCain, but I know I'm not pulling it for a man who appears to be capable of giving Jimmy Carter a hard run for worst...President...ever. ("Voting third party is throwing your vote away!" "No, it's called 'principle,' a.k.a. I like to sleep at night."

James,

Interesting comments all. but your last line: "Voting third party is throwing your vote away!" "No, it's called 'principle,' a.k.a. I like to sleep at night." is perplexing.

I have principles. And I love my country. I serve willingly, long past the time when I could have retired, because my skills are needed and I can still do the job. But principles are worthless when you are taking a dirt nap on the wrong side of the lawn.

It seems, at the moment, based on his spoken word and policies, as well as his history, that Obama has no concept of the evil that is out here. That is the evil I see daily. He would negotiate with Amadinejhad. He would negotiate with Chavez. He would negotiate with Kim Jong-Il. No preconditions. Let's talk.

You can negotiate with reasonable people. With unreasonable people you state your position publicly from afar and be prepared to act. "Carterizing" the military and expecting us to be able to respond is NOT the way to go.

If you are prepared to pay more for everything, be taxed more for everything, AND give up more for reasons that only Obama understands - after all, he is a Lightworker, then by all means, vote your vote for anyone but McCain. I am NOT a McCain fan by any stretch of the imagination. He has not shown me anything that makes me want to support him EXCEPT his stand on defense.

If this country is not free, and able to defend itself, nothing else matters. NOTHING. Think of that when you go into the booth.

There are many more qualified than McCain, but they are not running, or at least not with enough of a support mechanism to make them viable candidates. That means each vote for that "other" candidate is, in effect, a vote against McCain, which works out to a vote FOR Obama.

Think, Think, THINK!

CW4,EN

principle aside... mathematically ALL voting is throwing your vote away.

Your vote never has and never will be the deciding vote in any presidential election. ever.

"what if everyone thought that way"

then I'd have to eat my words.

In the 1 in a billion chance that almost everyone in a state doesn't vote, then one vote has some mathematical chance of mattering. But this would need the insanely low probabalityh event of voter turnout of a fraction of 1% ina state. Aint gonna happen.

After all the math, i'll restate it again: in the real world where thousands of people will vote, no matter what (not hypothetical world where there's some shot at "everyone thinking that way") one vote for the POTUS will never ever ever matter.

It is a mystery to me why any black would vote for a Democrat. Democrats have brought nothing but death and destruction to the black community since the Civil War.

Republican's are not willing to exploit the black community for votes. Our lack of racism prevents us from doing so but the Democrat's racism delights in such exploitation.

Jake is once again spinning apparatnik history and not American history and while he is taking shots at the old Southern Democrats, I would remind him that most of them have ended up in the GOP (including my family). We don't like big government and we are conservative on social issues and the GOP would not be too strong without us.

I'd advise taking a look at "Farewell to the Party of Lincoln" by Nancy Weiss to see why blacks abandoned the GOP in the early 1930s. Someone should do a study of how Southern whites moved from the Democrats to the Republicans, focusing on Strom Thurmond and the Dixiecrats, the Ike Southern Dems, Goldwater's success in the South in 64, Wallace in 68, Nixon's southern strategy and even Reagan's bid in 1980 (the Philadelphia, MS speech for example).

True story. A relative of mine remembers crying in the ballot box when she voted for Republican candidate for governor Claude Kirk over Mayor High, the leftist Dem mayor of Miami, in 1966. First time anyone in her immediate family had ever backed the GOP.

JC Watts should not surprise us.

I'm interested to see why you could take or leave Colin Powell.

I just meant that while Powell is a good man, he's not anything resembling a reliable conservative. He's a moderate at best and if he's a Republican at all I'd consider him a liberal Republican.

I have never been a fan of Colin Powell's at all so I was not surprised in the least. But I was completely shocked and disappointed with J.C. Watts. I can't fathom where this is coming from. This isn't the J.C. Watts that I came to know and love, what the heck happened?

I've been campaigning trying to get him as the VP for McCain to give the conservative base a reason to vote for McCain and then this??? I just can't believe it. I hope Sean Hannity has him on his show this week to explain. Maybe, there is some explanation. I am still in shock!!

Watts is very pro racial preferences, and like Colin Powell is suspect, insofar as his conservative views.

I AM STUNNED as to Powell, particularly when he stated that he DID NOT THINK that the Reverend Wright was a significant problem. I revered General Powell, has been revered by my family for years. I would have voted for him in a nano-second for President if he ever ran. HOWEVER, not now! This skin color voting is, no matter what the incompetence factor is, is incredibly shocking!!!!!!!!!! As to JC, I just cannot believe it!!!!!!!!!!

Oh well, I guess the purported "post-racial" candidate is a total myth, fairy tale, illusion, bull-sh*t........! Soooooooooo, "skin color" trumps absolutely everything. Vote in a neophyte, as long as the candidate is the correct sking color, who cares if we get nuked tomorrow!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hope.......bull; Change.......yup...just skin color.

I paid $100 to attend t fund raiser that featured Watts who couldn't stop talking about how great the GOP had been for blacks. What a fake. Any chance I can get my money back?

J.C. Watts has shocked me. I wonder if he (and all others voting for him just because he is black) stopped to think what a failed Obama presidency will mean to blacks and this country as a whole?

http://conservativepolitics.today.com/2008/06/15/jc-watts-the-great-black-hope/

Watts is his own man. He can think for himself. The real problem is the benevolent racist Republican like yourself. You cheer on conservatives like Rice, Watts and Jindal simply because of their race. It's exactly like the egghead liberals who are voting for Obama. Two sides of the same coin, my friend.

In any case, it looks like Obama can mark Ward Connerly off his list. Hopefully Watts will also see the truth of Obama and ditch the most inexperienced and most incompetent nominee the US ever had for President.

The correct term is not "Obamacans," but "Obamanators," as they may commit an Obamination.

chsw

I believe there are many conservatives of color who will not be throwing behind Obama. Colin Powell does not surprise me. I never considered him a true conservative. J.C. Watts is a surprise, but all is not lost.

I can't believe that I am the first person to mention the 'K' word, and what damage the lack of action by W and his appointees added to the blame game played afterwards caused to the perception of the GOP in the USA. Image seems to be more important in the USA, and this image, true or not, right or wrong, has stuck in peoples' minds. With New Orleans still not even close to the levels of repair seen after half the time following on from the LA earthquake in the 1990's, the political capital to be made at the expense of the GOP doesn't bear thinking about.

My comment on principles is based on the methodology and planning behind our going into Iraq. I think that the current President did not apply logic and forethought to the second and third order effects our actions would lead to. More importantly, I don't think you start a two-front war as a matter of choice but as a matter of last resort. Finally, and most importantly, I know people who are dead because the President and his SecDef decided to ignore the recommendations of the Army Chief of Staff with regards to force structure and course of action with how we decided to prosecute this war. Without going to much into things, this was not (and remains not) an academic discussion for me.

I know other's mileage varies on this topic, but at the end of the day I couldn't bring myself to pull the lever for Bush. (Note: Kerry was never an option.) Bet success on a new way of war, be prepared to suffer the ballot box consequences when it doesn't end well. I haven't seen much since '04 that has made me regret my decision and much that has made me glad to be able to point out I didn't vote for the man.

McCain, CinC credentials notwithstanding, has demonstrated a world view, political philosophy, and leadership style that gives me pause. While Obama's makes me shriek in out right terror, it is McCain's stances on things like the 1st Amendment, immigration, and the role of the Federal government that make me wonder if he'd actually be any better. Obama would be swimming against the current--McCain would get GOPers to cross in the spirit of "bipartisanship" (a.k.a., pass the astroglide, we're about to do business to, er, for the little people). Ergo, once again, I'm not sure how I'm voting in '08.

E5: Yes, the Electoral College could totally ignore the will of the people. The Founding Fathers, of course, did this for a reason. They also put in the 2nd Amendment so that the people had a recourse to express their displeasure should the Electors just "go their own way."

That being said, you are right about the odds of one vote not making the difference are slim, had 501 people who voted in 2000 felt the same way you do we would have had President Al Gore. Thanks, I believe I'll keep executing my civic duty just in case I'm somewhere in there.

On the GOP versus Dem argument, I will merely quote my mother (she who has sold her soul to the GOP): "The GOP writes us off and the Dems take us for granted--all you can do is decide which you prefer." Yep, that'd be why I'm an independent. ;)

I'm not surprised Watts is at least expressing ambivalence. Like I said, being an African American right now and saying, "I'm not voting for the man because he's a lightweight..." sounds easy, but it does tend to lead to some interesting discussions about "the prize" and Nabisco snack products. I know of at least one family where folks have agreed just to stop talking politics because this tension is rather steep. Who knows what's going on with Watts or even if he's not quoted out of context? However, yes, I think having this discussion on the basis of skin color is downright f-ed up. Who knew so many "black conservatives" were really David Duke with a good tan?

Personally, I think the question African-Americans should be asking themselves is whether or not they want a village idiot being the first black man elected to the Presidency. When people are already making the comparisons to Carter that's not a good sign. Like Colin Powell or not, I think we can all acknowledge he's probably 2-300% more competent than Obama. Whereas the former could probably run a fairly effective Presidency, the latter is likely to get a whole bunch of us killed. Being dead isn't fun I hear (worms, confined space, embalming...none of this sound scool), so that may make the difference in my case between pulling the lever for McCain or a third party this time around.

P.S. Bryan--the 'K' word lost all relevancy when the good people of New Orleans reelected an openly racist and incompetent mayor. Sorry, but I find it hard to bite my tongue when I hear someone bring Katrina up as a reason why the African American community should dislike Bush.

Maybe folks should be asking Ray "Chocolate" Nagin what he was doing after hearing that b*tch was coming ashore rather than castigating the Federal government. (I would add in the governor but, thankfully, the people of LA have sense even if those in New Orleans don't.)

The "K" Word? Are you K, K, kidding? Did you notice the state Kicked out the Democrat Governor? Did you ever wonder why?

She was the loser that caused the problems to start. She was caught on tape admitting she messed up and did not send the National Guard in time. This is what caused all the initial problems of getting relief in to New Orleans, due to her lack of executive decisions.

Racist Mayor Nagin in New Orleans? He is the idiot that sit in his hotel room and did not take control. As the General said, Don't be Stuck on Stupid.

Florida was hit with 4 hurricanes in one year causing as much devastation as Katrina in terms of losses in money and destruction. Yet they turned it all around because they had a competent Governor and had put great procedures in place. Plus, Florida didn't have the murder capital of the year in New Orleans and the incompetent police chief, or the incompetent police forces. Nor did they suffer from a welfare city. The city of New Orleans suffers from Democrat victimization syndrome. And it has for 50 years been a place of ulimate waste.

What could be one of the greatest cities in our nation is a cess pool. Maybe the new Republican Governor can change it.

Louisiana corrupt Democrat leaders for years wasted the peoples money. They are notorious for scamming and banking the taxes.

This is the problem with people trusting MSM. This was a state and city problem. Billions were given to Louisiana. Any other state in the nation would be far ahead of where Louisiana is today, because it was run by the most corrupt Democrats in the nation.

The problem is Conservatives still do not mix it up in the Media enough. One cable channel amongst 3 major networks, CNN, MSNBC, and the major newspapers constantly pound us with liberal santimonious lies to make everyone feel guilty.

When in fact, it is them causing the problems, just like in Louisiana. But don't worry, someone will come along and blame the President.

Michael and James,
I'm sure you have presented reasonable, if not great arguments, but, as I said, perception is the problem, not facts. Much of what happened, and the aftermath is percieved as the fault of the president on watch, W. This is why I was very careful in my wording, because, like in many instances, the quick version is not necessarily the right one.

I'm Black and I've voted republican since the 2nd Reagan term. However what the republicans have promised and what they've done have been very different things. Lower taxes? Smaller Gov't? Integrity? How many reports and and former Bush Administration employees have to come out before we admit that Bush and crew lied us into an unnecessary and expensive war with Iraq? Lies that have killed and maimed thousands of our own soldiers and 10s of thousands of innocent Iraqis. Does loyalty to party trump honesty? How many do we kill for loyalty to party. I say ZERO! I will not vote for Obama I'm sick of both parties. Both are anti freedom from my POV. Bush breaking every Amendment in the Bill of Rights for my safety? I DON"T BY IT! Obama and Dems want to control my health care, education and everything else from the federal level for my welfare? NO THANK YOU!

Is-lameo-fasism.
sorry I'm not afraid. Don't protect me.

Obama NO
McCain NO

Freedom Yes-
God help what's left of our country.

But I ask you this. Where is the Question here that asks how many whites here would vote for a Black Candidate in this party? Blacks have been voting for whites for over 100 years! I couldn't even read past 3 post before I read about how "blacks" aren't qualified etc.. Wonder why more black haven't joined?

A pox on both your houses.

Simply put:
Watts is trying to start up an "All Black" news channel.
92% of blacks are voting for Obama.
Now how smart would it be for Watts NOT to support Obama?

Since when did political parties mean race. It is about a platform either you agree or disagree with the platform. Does a party really want people based on race or principle. I want to know what the platform is not how diverse the party is. The only way the Republicans will attract more blacks is to become more like democrats and that is a strong possibility. As a matter of fact, it is already happening.

Racism is alive and well in black America.

These men are black power racists first and conservatives 5th or 6th.

So....they will vote to destroy America, by their own standards, to promote a neo-communist liberal, because of the color of his skin.

These people are dead in the Republican party. They are really members of the KWT. The Klan With A Tan!!!

This is no surprise, as ethnic politics is still strong in this country, and the first of any group to run for an office can expect high support from his or her ethnic group. Get over it.

I couldn't care less if a candidate is white, black, or purple. It's his or her positions that I care about.

The fact that Obama is black, and that we MUST elect him because it would be "historic" is about as specious a rationale for doing so as electing a candidate from San Francisco just because s/he was born a hermaphrodite.

I would never vote for a woman because I'm a woman, an Hispanic because I'm hispanic, etc.

I'm for Bobby Jindal for VP. because he's the smartest young guy in politics today. He runs rings around Obama in terms of achievement (Rhodes scholar) and executive experience and I love his ideas, his drive for ethics reform and lowering of taxes six times in five months to attract more business to Louisiana.

Other than misplaced goodheartedness, I could never understand the enthusiasm for Colin Powell. His line about cutting the snake's head off was negated by HIS decision to stop killing Saddam's Republican Guard because it wouldn't have looked good to the world. Schwartzkopf and a state department aide also erred greatly by allowing Saddam's men to fly helicopters because: "sob, we'd destroyed their bridges." Then, we stood by as Saddam's men killed Shiites and Kurds. We OWED these people and HAD to go in and finish the job.

Obama terrifies me because of his half-brother, Abongo Obama and his cousin, Odinga, who lost the election in Kenya last year and have been stirring up mass violence ever since. Odinga had planned to institute Muslim Sharia law and has since been guilty of one very common Muslim atrocity: Christian men, women and children were locked in a church and burned to death. (google Odinga Obama).

Obama's far left ties mean he would flood the bureaucracy with thousands of far leftists we might never be able to rid ourselves of. Think of the Judges he would appoint. Think of how he would snatch defeat from the jaws of victory in Iraq.

Anyone who stays home on election day because of disdain for McCain (which I somewhat share) or votes third party may be putting our Republic in grave danger by electing a tan version of Carter, only worse.

OK. I was wrong about Colin Powell. In this morning's email:

When in England , at a fairly large conference, Colin Powell was asked by the Archbishop of Canterbury if our plans for Iraq were just an example of empire building by George Bush.

He answered by saying, 'Over the years, the United States has sent many of its fine young men and women into great peril to fight for freedom beyond our borders. The only amount of land we have ever asked for in return is enough to bury those that did not return.'

You could have heard a pin drop.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

There was a conference in France where a number of international engineers were taking part, including French and American. During a break, one of theFrench engineers came back into the room saying 'Have you heard the latest dumb stunt Bush has done? He has sent an aircraft carrier to Indonesia to help the tsunami victims. What does he intended to do, bomb them?'

A Boeing engineer stood up and replied quietly: 'Our carriers have three hospitals on board that can treat several hundred people; they are nuclear powered and can supply emergency electrical power to shore facilities; they have three cafeterias with the capacity to feed 3,000 people three meals a day, they can produce several thousand gallons of fresh water from sea water each day, and they carry half a dozen helicopters for use in
transporting victims and injured to and from their flight deck. We have eleven such ships; how many does France have?'

You could have heard a pin drop.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

A U.S. Navy Admiral was attending a naval conference that included Admirals from the U.S. , English, Canadian, Australian and French Navies. At a cocktail reception, he found himself standing with a large group of Officers that included personnel from most of those countries.

Everyone was chatting away in English as they sipped their drinks but a French admiral suddenly complained that, whereas Europeans learn many languages, Americans learn only English.' He then asked, 'Why is it that we always have to speak English in these conferences rather than speaking French?'

Without hesitating, the American Admiral replied 'Maybe it's because the Brits, Canadians, Aussies and Americans arranged it so you wouldn't have to speak German.'

You could have heard a pin drop.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

AND THIS STORY FITS RIGHT IN WITH THE ABOVE...

Robert Whiting, an elderly gentleman of 83, arrived in Paris by plane. At French Customs, he took a few minutes to locate his passport in his carry on. 'You have been to France before, monsieur?' the customs officer asked sarcastically. Mr. Whiting admitted that he had been to France previously. 'Then you should know enough to have your passport ready.'

The American said, "'The last time I was here, I didn't have to show it.

"Impossible. Americans always have to show your passports on arrival in France !' stated the customs officer.

The American senior gave the Frenchman a long hard look. Then he quietly explained, "'Well, when I came ashore at Omaha Beach on D-Day in 1944 to help liberate this country,I couldn't find a single Frenchmen to show a passport to.'

You could have heard a pin drop.

Sandra, wasn't Clinton a Rhodes Scholar?
I live in the UK. Perhaps you are unaware that the USA took all of the British gold in exchange for armaments during lend-lease. After the war, the USA loaned the UK several billion dollars (for which we had to seriously beg, your 'ally'). This loan took until last year to pay back.
By all means criticise France because they are arrogant bastards, but remember that the British empire (at the time) could have either sought peace in 1941 or regrouped in Canada, India, Australia or the myriad other countries they controlled.
Don't get me wrong, the USA gave lives to free europe and that sacrifice is honoured by myself. The Russians gave one third of all casualties in WW2, and that seems less important to some. One might argue that these peoples have the moral ascendancy over those of the USA, even if both countries practised non-agression for a couple of years first.

"Colin Powell does not surprise me. I never considered him a true conservative"

Powell is not a true conservative, rather he is a true American though. The reason being, as Powell stated in his interview from Vancouver last week that the reason he is considering Obama is that it doesn't matter to him what party the individual belongs to, it only matters that the person who gets his vote will be the one who will do what is best for the country - and that is why he is considering Obama.

Powell is no surprise...remember he agreed with the Supreme Court in the affirmative action decision concerning the U of Michigan Law School.
I googled Watts and he's doing nicely with his business and seems to be tapped into the Governments buddy/money system ...All these republican blacks should RUN to the Hoover Institute and have a conversation with Thomas Sowell, then read every one of his articles and books...Then with apologies to JFK ask not what the Republican Party can do for them, but rather what they can do for it.

Old argument, bryan, and one you'd best not bring up again if you don't care to lose it again.

You still sound as bitter as ever about the gold. Why? Your government didn't have to give it up. There was the unpleasant alternative of losing, but the U.S. hardly forced your country into things. You were already off the gold standard by then, so it's not as detrimental as you apparently think.

An ally is not a friend, and even a friend is not someone I'll unhesitatingly lend money to. Standard lender evaluation applies as much as ever. With all the damage to your infrastructure and national morale, why should we lend money to your government, with the uncertainty that it might not have the economic base to collect enough taxes to repay the debt? (I won't get into the fact that foreign aid is taking money from taxpayers and giving it to others they don't want. If I wanted foreign aid sent to Saudi Arabia or Israel, I can send it myself.)

Now, you say "peace in 1941." You actually meant, "collaborate," because as the French showed, that's the only way you could have made peace. Filipinos, particularly my grandfather, knew what to do with countrymen who cooperated with Japanese: we assassinated them as traitors.

If your country had sought "peace" with Germany, how would you have shipped your Jews, or would you have built incinerators on your own soil?

But I ask you this. Where is the Question here that asks how many whites here would vote for a Black Candidate in this party?

I'm white and I'd vote for a real Conservative regardless of skin color. Michael Steele would be spectacular.

I'm white and I'd vote for a real Conservative regardless of skin color.

Me too, in a heartbeat. Michael Steele is awesome. Herman Cain remains my hero. I thought Watts was reliable. This was sad.

Michael Steele is awesome.

Michael Steele is awesome, but doesn't seem very conservative. I doubt someone who's really conservative would be heading up the Republican Leadership Council with Christie Todd Whitman.

Is the mark of a "true conservative" now being the company one keeps?

"Um, he associates with non-believers..."

"Hmm, must be a heretic. Burn him! Er, I mean, let's not ever let him run for anything again."

Bryan--Seriously, you're going to b*tch because your country had to ask the US for a loan? Really? Are you aware that the American taxpayer had no obligation to keep the British Empire afloat? I mean, seriously, given half the crap the UK pulled after the war (does Operation Musketeer ring a bell?) in order to prop up the rotting carcass of colonialism, pardon me if I don't weep because the U.S. government willing to take a fiscal kick in the junk.

Let's not even get into all the support that you guys got at bargain basement rates _during_ the war.

I wonder what Watts would say of something if they voted for someone not because of his stance on the issues but becuase of his religion, race or nationality.

When I meet someone who says I'm voting for X not because he's the best candidate but because he's Irish, Baptist, Hindu, Mormon, Black or whatever I know I'm dealing with someone I wouldn't invite home as a guest. There are too many people like this around.

Perry, you jump far too far ahead and make your own straw men. You didn't even know about this loan until I pointed it out last year. reminded me of the post WW1 debt levied on Germany by France, and we know how well that went. I would also point out that the Channel Islands were occupied, and the people there wrote letters of denunciation about one another, shamefully, and at the end, no collaborators were punished.
James, beg, not ask. The fact is everybody pulled shit during or after the war. That I can get over. Your big ally in Korea fighting communism had to do so in debt whilst money went freely to other less devoted countries. It just smarts a bit. Didn't affect me personally, my parents were in a neutral country

The reason our ally had to "beg" (I disagree somewhat on the tone, but I'm not going to go dig sources out at the moment) was because of our ongoing argumeng regarding some of your guys' remaining colonies and how much (or little) you wanted to help out the ones that had just broke from the Empire. Not to mention, there was the little matter of the Marshall Plan and the aforementioned Korean War going on. Domestically the American people weren't so keen on us splurging money abroad in the late '40s and early '50s. Less devoted countries or not, it would have been a hard sell to give the British Empire even more cash when most Americans had the impression (correct or not) that the Empire was one of the wealthiest nations in the world.

I will say I actually thought you were talking about the loans we gave the UK in late '44/early '45, not the postwar bundle. But either way, just because "everyone pulled sh*t during the war" doesn't mean the U.S. shouldn't have gotten to pick and choose who it handed money out to. That is, as someone pointed out, the difference between being an "ally" and a "friend."

The post WWI debt is apples and oranges, btw. The crushing debt imposed on Germany by France and Great Britain was entirely vengeful and intended as punishment. When you throw in the fact that both France and Great Britain had had as much to do with starting WWI as Germany, the unfairness of this was self-apparent. Especially as the Germans had surrendered with the understanding that reparations would _not_ be on the table.

Considering the role that said debt and inflation had in crushing the Weimar Republic and fueling Hitler's rise, it could almost be said that WWII was what Great Britain and France had coming to them. It is to their great fortune in the historical record that their opponent happened to be one of the most vile, irredeemable creatures in history rather than a fervent, sympathetic nationalist.

Before accusing others of creating strawmen, bryan, don't employ your own. The fact is that I was unaware you delinquents had finally paid it off.

Why are you so bitter about your government having to borrow? Do you really think beggars have any option to dictate their own terms? Or do you really think so fondly about your country's alternate future, i.e. what would have happened with your gold falling into the Third Reich's coffers?

I remember how badly J.C. Watts was treated by the Majority Leadership - mainly, Tom DeLay - when he was supposed to be Leadership himself. They humiliated him.... I, personally, could not have taken it. He did. (Why?)

He should forget the "scraps" he's receiving of small-time clients, and write a "tell all" book -- in service to the party.

The demographics don't lie. Republicans MUST attract minorities. By 2020, 40% of legal Americans will be minorities. Mellman said it - change or die!

J.C. should tattle!!

Perry, we had no gold left, the USA had taken it all in the lend/lease. Wasn't W's Granddaddy a major investor in Nazi Germany, along with a great many other US investors. Perhaps keeping the war going by profiting from both sides was a great investment.

It's a myth that Prescott was a Nazi financial backer. The worst thing he did was to be guilty by association. The Union Banking Corporation was seized by the U.S. federal government under the Trading with the Enemy Act. Prescott Bush was a director, holding one share of the company. Do you really think that's a big deal? Or are you damning him for being friends with Fritz Thyssen? I suppose that makes as much sense as you damning GWB for the sins of his grandfather.

You paid us "all" your gold, but as I've said time and time again, you didn't have to. Why did you give up all your gold if you didn't think you were getting something better in return? You also ignore (and probably don't know) that your country (and France) were playing the same game through the early 1930s, and then later in the 1970s when Nixon took the U.S. off the gold standard.