I think he was introducing his crew to the towel heads. A wanker anyway though.

Was it better when W walked holding hands with this (useful) tyrant? I think neither looks good.

Holding hands is a gesture of friendship. Bowing is a gesture of obeisance.

I would do neither to any king, and I didn't like it when Bush held hands, but bowing is far worse.

Is another display of Bryan's pathetic grasp of relativism any worse than the Holocaust?

Bowing is a sign of respect (unless it's really low, then it more like obeisance). Holding hands is a gesture of love (unless one of the people is blind or disabled).
If you don't want to bow to a king, or holkd their hand, you don't have to.
There has a terrible fuss made a few years ago when Prince Phillip nodded towards the coffin of Hiro Hito. I agree with you on this one, both are bad. We are friends with a guy we wouldn't let into our countries if he didn't have oil.

btw, dude, whoever you are, are you gathering up the courage to ask me to your special prom or something? Do you realise that this sort of attention is what people do when they have a crush?

"Bowing is a sign of respect (unless it's really low, then it more like obeisance)."

Obama did a very low bow. Didn't you see the picture?

With your queen, B&M "bowed" in that they gave polite nods of their head as they shook her hand.

"Holding hands is a gesture of love (unless one of the people is blind or disabled)."

Not necessarily, unless you care to argue that Bush and Abdullah love each other in either the philos or agape sense.

Bryan's best move yet: getting all homophobic just because it's so much fun to point out his constant idiocy. (I'm pretty sure that's the first time any regular commenter at Alarming News has attempted a disparaging comment on someone's sexuality.) By Bryan's standards, just about every regular poster here at Alarming News has a crush on him. Well, it's nice that he's found a way to put a spin on it.

bryan,

You're the subject of a monarch, and you harbor sympathy for Sharia, so bowing to the King of Saudi Arabia probably holds a different context to you than it does to Americans.

We Americans don't bow to anyone---we're a republic.
Our leaders are elected---they're not inherent.
Ok, except for the Kennedys. They can drown people, and still get re-elected due to their surname.

We do show respect to heads of state of other nations---but we do so by shaking hands, and addressing them politely.

On the other hand, bowing is a sign of submission---and we Americans don't do that, because our philosophy is that elected leaders serve us---we don't serve them.
Thus, we don't bow to foreign dignataries.

Incidentally, Obama deliberately refused to bow to the Queen of England.
Yet he went out of his way to bow to the Saudi King.
Gee, we wonder why that was.

Also, if Obama really is so fixated on showing respect to "foreign leaders" as he claimed in his campaign, why did he blow off Gordon Brown when Brown visited the States a couple months ago ?
Obama failed to give Brown the customary joint press conference with the Union Jack behind them. Please don't tell me that Obama didn't know what to do in that situation---there is an entire bureau called the State Department which advises him on all the proper protocol in dealing with foreign dignataries.
On top of that, for their gift exchange, Obama gave Brown a bunch of DVDs that don't even play on Euro DVD players.

And for yesterday's D-Day commemoration, Obama signed off on excluding the Queen from the event.

And, while Obama has made two trips to the Muslim "world," he has flown past Israel without stopping on both trips...and he provided little time for Netanyahu when Bibi was in DC a couple weeks ago.

In other words, in dealing with two of our tightest allies (Britain, Israel) Obama likes to cut corners on protocol.
But when dealing with Islamic despots, Obama brings the KY jelly.

Sorry, at no point have I said that anyone kowtowing to saudi Arabia, their leaders and the (thoroughbred) horses they ride in on as a good thing. It sucks beans.
I don't know where you get the idea that I have sympathy with Sharia law.
When you visit another country, they tend to have habits, gestures and customs different from your own. You may cause grave offence doing the natural thing for your own country. HSBC recently ran a 'fluent in business' campaign highlighting this. Not saying he should have bowed, just saying.
btw I have an Irish passport as well, which has been handy in certain parts of the world.

I never said anything about homosexuality dude. Perhaps you read something and interpret it differently. A man-crush doesn't mean a sex thing. Surely there are guys you want to be like? I did however do to you what you did to me; provoke a response. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with the idea that this is a forum for the exchange and debate of ideas. If you don't agree with me, and can't figure out how to tell me why (or why you need to), I have no idea what you are talking about. Hope this helps.

bryan wrote, "I don't know where you get the idea that I have sympathy with Sharia law."

(Uh, bryan, I get the idea from reading your posts !)
---------------------------------------------

bryan wrote, "When you visit another country, they tend to have habits, gestures and customs different from your own. You may cause grave offence doing the natural thing for your own country.

(Yes, bryan, and bowing is not one of our customs, therefore, we don't do it here, there, or anywhere. But that's just your pussy way of saying that we should bow to their Islamic King in their country because it's 'their' custom. Of course, you say that now, but never in a zillion years would you that one of your brothers in Islam should adjust to OUR customs in OUR country---it's always just a one-way street with you guys. Nonetheless, Obama wanted to please the Saudi King, but he didn't want to please the Queen of England---that says a lot.)

Way to misquote there. You left out the bit where I said "Not saying he should have bowed", which sorta changes the entire meaning of the paragraph.

Here's a for instance from the ads I mentioned; You go to China, and are somebodies guest. A lot of people believe here it's rude not to clear your plate, so let's say you do. In China, this is a sign that you need more food, and you will be given some until you stop eating having left food on the plate or in the bowl.
The interesting thing about these ads is that they are "fluent in business". Wanna trade with a guy in another country? then tread a line between not pissing him off and not compromising your own values.
btw, what was ambiguous about the first sentence I wrote? Our dealings with Saudi Arabia suck. And political parties or affiliations don't change that.

bryan,

Nice try, mate.

Chinese food ?
Oh brother.
On the one hand, you are comparing apples to Chinese food.
On the other hand, I haven't seen anyone be so incoherent about both sides of an issue like that since....last time Obama gave a speech.

Look, you believe that westerners should bow to the Islamist King of Saudi Arabia when they're in Saudi Arabia.
Sorry, we don't bow to anyone.

But it's always just a one-way street with you guys, anyhow.
That's why democracy is not a tradition of Islamic countries.

It's no surprise that it's illegal to publicly be in possession of a Bible in Saudi Arabia.

I reject Allah. I reject Mohammed. I reject Sharia. I reject Islam. Get over it.

I'm gonna capitalize the sentence in both posts I made to make it easy for you:
"NOT SAYING HE SHOULD HAVE BOWED"
Sorry, but how does that mean I think he should have bowed?
Just to repeat this, in case you haven't got it. I think people should do what they are comfortable with. You don't want to bow to a guy? Then don't.

The bit about Saudi Arabia sucking seems to have passed through your screen to mean the opposite too. It's not a democracy even, but our ally in the supposed democratisation of the middle east. I'd rather we had nothing to do with this place, and am confident that if they had no oil, that would be the case.

Let's get back to the original point.

"Was it better when W walked holding hands with this (useful) tyrant? I think neither looks good."

The fact is: though still not "good," the holding hands was not anywhere near the bowing. Buddy-buddy with a tyrant, instead of submission to same tyrant.

I'm an American, and I don't deep-bow to anyone. Do you understand yet what it means? In just about every culture that practices it, even 4000 years ago with Egyptian servants stretching their hands low before their masters, it's a sign that the other person is superior to you.

Even with my Japanese colleagues who are superior in rank, I don't deep-bow. We will, though, lightly bow to each other as a sign of respect.

Did Obama do the same deep-bow to Queen Elizabeth? No, so why the difference? Let's hear what you think.

bryan,

You're an amusing dude.

You're not opposed to bowing, and you believe people should bow to the Saudi Islamist King when in Saudi Arabia.
If you didn't think that, you wouldn't have bothered to come up with the bizarre tangent about Chinese food.

Obama was comfortable with bowing to the Saudi Islamist King---but he was uncomfortable with showing the same "respect" to the Queen of England---so he didn't bow to her.
And Obama signed off on excluding her from the D-Day Commemoration.

Hmmm...I wonder why that is.
bryan, any theories ?
Enlighten us. Help us see the light and the way.

I give up. I call the saudi king a tyrant, I say don't bow if you don't want to. This seems not to register.
As to 'my' queen. I have already said what I think about D-day. W and Blair signed an extradition treaty with the UK that is super-one sided for the USA. This IMO is worse than any non-bowing stuff. I say this not to defend Obama, but to show that our relationship has not been so great in the last few years. Blair was W's staunchest ally, but he lost many votes because of this, possibly because UK voters thought this 'closeness' was not in the UK best interests.
Remember, I think every western leader who deals with Saudi Arabia on a happy footing is bad. As do bow depth, the UK does not have as much oil as Saudi Arabia, and this affected the bow depth. Or maybe Obama wanted to impress the guy more. He didn't hold his hand. I don't know. I am happy to read your opinions.

bryan,

I always enjoy watching you debate yourself against your previous comments !

Just out of curiosity, what do you find most appealing about Islam ?

My opinion hasn't changed, and I'm still not sure you can do reading for comprehension.

"W and Blair signed an extradition treaty with the UK that is super-one sided for the USA. This IMO is worse than any non-bowing stuff."

Perhaps, but we're talking about Obama and Abdullah. Let's stay on topic, please.

"As do bow depth, the UK does not have as much oil as Saudi Arabia, and this affected the bow depth."

So you truly believe that if the bow isn't deep enough, we risk losing their oil exports.

Perry, this is the second time you have said about staying on topic. I mention that treaty as an example of the erosion of relations between our countries. Surely that's the topic; the relationships between countries. It's almost like that other notions might support the very minor point I have tried to make (so lets not bring them in for Heaven's sake!). When you inevitably say "What was your point?", I won't be suggesting you read back btw, because it seems quite futile so to do.
Your last sentence: was that a question or a statement? Read on further from where you quoted and see where I put 'I don't know'.

bryan,

Ultimately, you do not object to a western democrat (small 'd') bowing to the Islamist Saudi King.

Btw, on a personal level, what is it about Islam that you find so appealing ?

The guy can stand on his hands for all I care, Saudi will still be toxic, and you will still be a fool.

And a commie.

"Was it better when W walked holding hands with this (useful) tyrant? I think neither looks good."

That's the topic. You set it, you know, so that's what I keep bringing us back to.

My last sentence was originally going to be a question, but your words removed all doubt, so I left it as a statement. The U.S. didn't seem to have a problem with Saudi oil exports when Bush did no more than hold hands.

Sorry, Perry, the topic is the text of the thread, surely?