Considering what happened to Bush, would it be appropriate to say "If the shoe fits..."?

As far as I'm concerned, Wilson had nothing to apologize for. If he were censured, he can say that he's being punished for speaking the truth. If Obama is a liar, then it's appropriate to call him on it, and I can think of no better opportunity than during a nationally televised speech. If Obama is speaking the truth, he can defend himself on the spot. It would be more comedy than Seinfeld reruns to see him do it without his teleprompter.

But Republicans hardly ever have the guts to call a lie a lie. Both sides hide behind euphemisms like "myths," so they can claim absurd things like "the moral high ground" and "civility" instead of getting to the heart of things. This idea of "respect" in politics is so overrated. A government position should never command respect, even if it's that of the president. "Respect is earned, not bestowed," or so I was always taught.

The health care "debate" is about people's lives and liberty on an unprecedented scale. There is no room for "opinion" and "We'll agree to disagree" any longer. If someone's lying, no matter what the forum, he must be exposed.

Of course, as I've been demonstrating lately, I have no compunction in exposing certain liberals for the liars they are...

I totally agree with you that the president, as an office, deserves respect. (Why I never make Clinton jokes, even to this day.) But I also think that if you do something, even foolish, you gotta own it and weak apologies are punk.

Angela, which do you think is worse, Wilson's behavior that you call "foolish," or Obama's continuous lies?

I presume you're not talking about all the lies that Obama needs to apologize and resign for, are you?

Even the office in and of itself deserves no inherent respect. Obliged respect is one way people stay silent to tyranny.

I meant "foolish" in a general sense...maybe I should clarify that I meant apologizing after your actions are taken to be foolish by some.

Though I do think it's somewhat foolish to yell out like that in that situation. Foolish, as in, beneath the level of behaviour that we would expect from our leaders. Taking a stand is important, but do it in a professional and impactful way, not in a way that will have others looking down on you.

Is Obama lying about health care and immigrants?

Angela, why do you think it was "foolish"? If you agree with Wilson that it was a lie, then shouldn't anyone (in a political position or not) have the right to tell the POTUS, to his face, that he's lying?

Paul, Obama is resorting to an old Soviet trick of rhetoric. For example, Adlai Stevenson noted during the Cuban missile crisis, "The representative of the Soviet Union says that the official answer of the U.S.S.R. was the Tass statement that they don't need to locate missiles in Cuba. Well, I agree-they don't need to. But the question is, have they missiles in Cuba-and that question remains unanswered. I knew it would be." Technically what Obama is saying is not a lie, if you take the words literally and only in and of themselves. However, he's misrepresenting what he's going to do, which is still a lie.

Stop blowing smoke, Perry. Wilson was rude. He was right to apologise for his rudeness. Nothing, repeat nothing justified his rudeness. Whatever Obama has said and done, it was not the right time. This reminds me of the Fred Phelps crowd who use the funerals of our fallen heroes to protest about sodomy.

I've been familiar with that expression since I was seven or eight years old, but I fail to see where you're coming from. How do you say I'm "blowing smoke" when throwing pointed questions at Angela?

Funerals are private affairs and don't concern you, me or anyone else. The Westboro Baptists were simply trespassing when on cemetary property. Outside, they're exercising their rights to association and speech. Yet as odious as they've been, they hold no power over me. You, I and the victims can ignore them.

With Obama, we're talking about the leader of a country who literally exercises power of life and death. If he is lying, then he needs to be called on it, no matter the venue. If it's a public venue, then I say it's so much the better, so that more Americans might wake up. No one is denying that Wilson was rude, but if you want to talk about "smoke," it's that the Democrats are exhibiting this faux outrage as a smokescreen for the real issue: is Obama lying?

If Obama is telling the truth, then Wilson should apologize -- if and only if. However, if Obama is lying, then Wilson did everything right for the sake of this "democratic process" horseshit. Exposing government abuses, especially lies, should never be constrained by civility, and it's time we stopped sitting quietly when some politician makes a long, unchecked speech. Whether it's Obama, Bush, Clinton, et al, aren't you worried more about whether the POTUS is lying than if someone is being "rude"?

You are amazing. Never heard you saying thid when Cheney was all outraged (pick any one of his outraged fits).
Wrong time and place. Period. You apologizing for it just makes you look crazy.

Good lord, you're trying to paint me as "apologizing" for him because I've never supported people who called him a liar. Put simply, the topic has never come up, except for a few times when Democrats spread various lies and half-truths about Valerie Plame or "You're unpatriotic if you oppose action in Iraq." Commenter Bryan and I were once talking about Bush getting "snippy" or something with a couple of dickhead reporters. If reporters kept bugging me with the same idiotic and vapid questions, over and over, I'd get pissed too.

Wilson's accusation, however, has merit. Do you argue that it doesn't? Or are you arguing that the POTUS must be given respect no matter what? Be careful how you respond here: remember that YOU are the one who accused me of being like Kim Jong-Il, who runs his country that way, when in fact I'm strongly against just about any governmental authority.

Now, I'd support Obama on the "myths" and "scaremongering" he's talked about...except that it's Obama spreading the myths and doing the scaremongering.

Do you understand what I've been talking about? I'm not "apologizing" for the actions of an individual, or anything else. I'm pointing out that if the POTUS is wrong, he must be called on it. That is the issue, no matter how much you try to muddle things. So like I said, "Whether it's Obama, Bush, Clinton, et al, aren't you worried more about whether the POTUS is lying than if someone is being "rude"?"

Additionally, you haven't known me long enough to know that I was once quite the Bush apologist, and I admit it. I don't whitewash. I should have known better that he was a statist like the rest). The financial bailouts sealed it for me. Let's also say I've had to refine my political philosophy from what people already considered "extreme" to an even purer form.

I'm man enough to admit I've changed, and changed by necessity. How about you? I didn't do a 180, but I was close to the right path and needed to do a little thinking, with a little help.

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